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Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl RetroTechUK), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC, BECG, MCR21 etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations.

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Old 13th Oct 2006, 10:36 pm   #21
chipp1968
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I think looking forward in time is a good idea to 10 years plus , we need to make shure there are ways to keep our collections serviced properly , and also re making sought after parts etc , Im not saying start this now ,but to start to think about it and put firm foundations down for the future
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Old 8th Dec 2006, 4:12 pm   #22
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Hi All,

I have now spent a good number of hours penning e-mails to companies etc., and phone calls to manufacturers and distributors.

Result:

Metallised Poly Capacitors (replaces paper caps):-

None of the manufacturers want to talk to us at all...

The distribution side are happy to deal with us, but of course the individual component price has already been subjected to about 500% profit by this time.

We are not VAT registered so would have to pay it and pass it on to anyone purchasing from the BVWS.

Can Type Electrolytics:-

Values 16+16uf, 32+32uf and 50+50uf

Found where to get them in good quantities, would take significant investment on the part of the BVWS to stock and I would want to see them all sell pretty quickly.
Again we could do them cheaper than I have seen them, but I think these are not so desperate as the others to obtain.

Not all distributors keep all of the required values which makes life even more complicated.
Some will deal in cash and Credit card, others by account only which will obviously take some setting up and be subject to minimum order values and need to be regular.

As if that was not enough we then have to source the manpower to deal with the orders from "you" the people who will buy them.
I think this part would have to be "At BVWS Events only" on the BVWS table to start with.

The very thought of getting the parts in any other form than plain bright yellow makes my hair stand on end to consider the price change.

We could certainly do a better price than RS, CPC or Farnell etc., but only on limited values for now.

So I'll let you know if we go ahead, what we have to offer and what price.
If they don't all get snapped up quickly I will be very dissapointed and drop the idea forever!

Mike...
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Old 8th Dec 2006, 7:28 pm   #23
Sean Williams
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphymad View Post
None of the manufacturers want to talk to us at all.
Hmm, very strange - LCR were very happy to deal with me - Just need to deal in commercial quantities - OK, the price wasn't great compared to the usual suspects, but I hadn't tried to beat them down.

They are a manufacturer, and as such they would manufacture whatever we wanted in the correct yellow axial package....

I did offer to help with this project, perhaps the research i have done is not relevant to the sort of ideas you have Mike - I would be intrigued to find out...

I do not see this working if the parts are only for sale at BVWS events - this would in my opinion be tantamount to certain failiure - you need to offer a mail order service - just like countless classic car clubs across the world....

Just the voice of reason and common sense

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Old 8th Dec 2006, 10:02 pm   #24
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1ecy View Post
I do not see this working if the parts are only for sale at BVWS events - this would in my opinion be tantamount to certain failiure - you need to offer a mail order service - just like countless classic car clubs across the world....
I can see both sides of this ! Having a mail order facility means a continual steam of requests that must be dealt with in a reasonable time scale - i.e. a rod for someone's back is created !

On the other hand, IMHO I suspect commercially speaking Sean is totally correct ! Only a proportion of BVWS members are actively engaged in restoration work, of those only a proportion regularly attend events
A mail order service in the BVWS mag would at least reach all the people in the organisation engaged in restoration work, and probably a few “second readers”. A Web based order system would of course reach a much wider potential clientèle.

In case of the latter, the volume of trade could mean better deals from manufacturers and a useful revenue source for the society - A good example of this model is the MGOC (MG Owners Club).

http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/

I guess ultimately it all depends on the direction the society wants to take - I'm reasonably neutral on the idea, but "falling between 2 stools" seems a likelihood if the suggested path is followed. Personally speaking, I would undoubtedly use any service that I had access to, but I am one of those that never seems to get around to going to events !
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 1:05 pm   #25
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I’m not convinced of the logic of getting our own parts manufactured whilst other sources are available. So, for example, the 0.1uF 630v etc are available but if accounts are needed or there is a minimum order then it’d be far better to wait for a number of people to request a quantity (with a deposit?) and then one person (maybe the BVWS) buy one bulk lot. Perhaps a regular bulk purchase (once a year, just before the winter sets in ?) so you at least get definite delivery dates.

This also means all the activity of mailing etc can be done in one lump, which is way better than dribs and drabs throughout the year, and also requires no long term storage.

This also means the parts have a guarantee – something that you wont get if the parts have sat on a BVWS shelf for two years.

As it is a question of access to parts, I think that price-wise the BVWS components should be on par with regular prices – any small profit would either go back into BVWS coffers and used for other benefits. If they were cheaper then you’d get some people buying them just to sell on – quotas are difficult to apply as enough caps go into a couple of tellies that could otherwise do a dozen radios, plus some people are more active than others.

If the BVWS were to get parts specifically manufactured I’d far rather see parts made that were completely unavailable anywhere else – and a good example are rubber TV screen surrounds. You can do the most wonderful restoration in the world on the chassis and cabinet, everything is do-able except for the rubber surrounds which, being on display, can ruin the whole thing. There are huge quantities of TV12/TV22’s about yet how many of these have you seen with decent screen surrounds ? Definitely the minority.

I’d agree that limiting parts as only available at events wouldn’t be so good. However I’d definitely be against making them widely available outside of the BVWS membership – it would be done for the benefit of members. It also means the society is dealing with known people which minimises risks of non-payment etc. Plus of course, extending availability any further would make the BVWS clearly a commercial concern with I suspect a lot of tax etc implications for the society.

TTFN,
Jon
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 1:37 pm   #26
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I certainly agree with Jon re making Tv rubber masks available, as for caps I would only be interested in buying these in bulk (100) say if they are at a cheaper rate than I can buy now through RS, which is of course free post !!!!

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Old 9th Dec 2006, 3:06 pm   #27
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Hi,

I'm not a member of the BVWS, so I really shouldn't comment, but I really think this whole idea is a bad one.

High voltage caps are still readilly available and probably alway will be. If the BVWS buys and sells caps, even at a small profit, it'll have to be tax accountable. If profits get too high it'll end up VAT registered, with all the associated complications.

As for reproducing parts, like screen surrounds, how many people are going to put there name down for one if it's going to cost, say, around £50 a piece?

The only suggestion I can make, that might interest the masses, would be for the BVWS (or somebody) to put together 'repair kits' of caps, resistors, etc for specific, popular, makes of radios and televisions

David
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 9:36 pm   #28
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Quote:
I'm not a member of the BVWS, so I really shouldn't comment, but I really think this whole idea is a bad one.
All constructive input is welcome. I also have yet to be convinced that stocking basic parts are a good idea _unless_ it is making the parts accessible to many people that can't obtain them elsewhere (personally I tag the odd bulk purchase onto the odd company order ).


Quote:
As for reproducing parts, like screen surrounds, how many people are going to put there name down for one if it's going to cost, say, around £50 a piece?
I don’t want to focus just on TV surrounds ... but I don’t expect any commitment to buy when the price is a completely unknown factor. But lets take your example £50 though – have you seen how much earlier TV sets are fetching these days ? 1948 Baird Garick £670, Pye D16’s £250-£300 (not sure if that has rubber screen surround) , I could go on, so yes I’d expect takers at £50. Hell, I’d put my name down for a couple. Obviously I’d have more if they were cheaper


Bear in mind I’m talking about parts that are simply unavailable from any source and really require tooling i.e. it isn’t really feasible for one person to be able to knock something up, however ingenious they may be, and as such it’d only happen if a number of people club together.

Quote:
The only suggestion I can make, that might interest the masses, would be for the BVWS (or somebody) to put together 'repair kits' of caps, resistors, etc for specific, popular, makes of radios and televisions
This is worse than stocking normal parts. Selling, say, a dozen caps as opposed to having to make up and stock I don’t know how many kits of parts will be far easier for the parts department volunteer(s) to manage, plus I’d expect many people will have different ideas about just what parts should go in such a kit. Personally I’d not buy any kits if for no other reason than I know I’ll have at least half the bits in my little stock already.

TTFN,
Jon
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Old 11th Dec 2006, 12:01 am   #29
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I am glad to see people discussing this issue , my point is to look into the near future where parts may be less available than now and so to now put down a base for possible supply of parts , which may involve having things made ,intead of saying we wished we had done such and such. The re manufacure of unavailable parts would have to be done on demand . If i needed a rubber mask then i would pay £50 for a new one .
The supply of caps for example would be best done on line as well as at events . I dont have a problem to supply non members but maybe that should be at a higherprice . The society would have to make some profit so i wouldnt expect the prices to be considerably lower than elsewhere. It would be good to have a reliable supply of parts that are ment for vintage equipment instead of wading through lists of what I find confusing simalar but not suitable items . Not everyone is as knowlegable as alot of members in this department ,and in this case a kit of parts for some sets may go down very well ...
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Old 11th Dec 2006, 10:14 am   #30
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Having only been in this game a short while, I'll offer my humble thoughts on the areas which I would like to see addressed.
1.Dial glasses. Definitely a 'bulk buy' job, but someone somewhere should be able to do these, if the quantity was right ? Price vs. quantity is the key I guess, but they would in any event be slow turnaround, given the number of models out there. Ferranti 145, DAC90's, Philips 462A ,206A and 209U, are a few that come to mind. Yes £20 is a lot for a dial glass, but thinking forward a few years, what hope for those "also ran" sets missing these parts, when all the good ones have been snapped up ?

2. Knobs. With the right tools etc I hope I am correct in thinking that these could be vacuum formed ( if that is correct terminology ? ) Again, only economical in large numbers, but someone out there is doing this already, as I have seen knobs for Roberts sets on sale ?
Worst offenders I have met : Murphy SAD 94, closely followed by Alba C112


3. Speaker cloths - definitely the bane of my life when a set is nearing completion. No offence intended to any of the current suppliers, but the cloths just don't look right for anything but certain early 50's sets. Sure, there is a mountain of different types ( as with knobs ! ) but a few tastefully chosen "generic" types could be made available. With modern machinery, how difficult could this be ? ( admit : knows nothing about this area !! )

There is an element of catch 22 here. How do you assess the demand if the products are not available to 'see and touch'. It is a risky venture, but if not the BVWS then who ? The MGOC must have started somewhere ? ( that site is EXTREMELY impressive ! )

Just my 4.5p worth ! ANDY
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Old 11th Dec 2006, 5:29 pm   #31
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Andy,
I think you have a good point with the generic parts. It is frustrating to find that some suppliers seem to have lost interest in axial lead capacitors for instance.

In the 1950s or there abouts, some suppliers produced generic components for the repair trade mainly mains transformers and output transformers. perhaps there are catalogues from Radio Spares or similar that could give hints

Quantities are the real problem, first for economical manufacture but storeage and subsequent handling may not be trivial. I suspect that a large number of components would be left in store for considerable time.

Perhaps a data base somewhere of people prepared to make small numbers of dial glasses etc might help. However I would not like to suggest it for this forum as I am sure it would embarrass Paul who takes great care to avoid commercial interests hi-jacking his site.

There is an obvious need for something but unfortunately I have no solutions but I hope I have given some food for thought.
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Old 13th Dec 2006, 2:49 am   #32
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

4. Wander plugs!
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Old 13th Dec 2006, 10:08 am   #33
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

On the subject of dial glasses, Ben Dijkman (do hope I spelt that right) already does dial glasses so if there really is demand for certain ones then he's the chap to contact.

As regards comparison with the MGOC - which, yes, is impressive - I'll just repeat two questions :-

1) How many basically different models of MG are there ?
2) How many basically different models of radios and televisions are there ?

Its a different ball game.

TTFN,
Jon

Last edited by Duke_Nukem; 13th Dec 2006 at 10:18 am. Reason: Spilling mistoke
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Old 13th Dec 2006, 10:24 am   #34
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Devils Advocate.....

How many MGs are there
How many radios and TVs are there?

R and TV must outnumber MGs by at least 10 to 1!

Every part ever needed for restoring any MG is available - we are only talking about a few parts

The original idea did not mention remanufacture - so the idea still holds water IMO!

Cheers
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Old 13th Dec 2006, 12:24 pm   #35
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

Quote:
R and TV must outnumber MGs by at least 10 to 1!
Way more than that I's say. But when there are thousands of MG Midget owners that need to regularly service their vehicles, you have quantity. When three people want a volume knob for a Pye D16 to last them another 50 years you don't have quantity !

So, I don't think comparison with car clubs is reasonable.

As for supplying basic parts, I've still not read anything to change my mind from previous messages.

TTFN,
Jon
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Old 13th Dec 2006, 1:05 pm   #36
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I think the only possible way of getting caps at a more reasonable price is for one of us privatly to place a bulk order, as an example I have just looked in the RS catalogue an axial 400v MKT series cap is .41 p each for 5 and for 500 is .29p each (I have not included vat) to keep things simple, and as its RS there is no postage to the bulk purchaser, but of course we all then have to either have them posted on or collect from a venue !!!! but if I bought 75 of these caps myself direct from RS the price is then only .32p each post free!!!! plus vat of course, could we get these type of caps direct from LCR at a rate that would make it worthwhile, feel free to shoot me down in flames

Last edited by tvden; 13th Dec 2006 at 1:20 pm.
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Old 13th Dec 2006, 1:46 pm   #37
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I should have said that if I bought 75 they would be .35p not the .32 p I stated, this was the rate for for a purchase of 250
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Old 28th Dec 2006, 11:50 am   #38
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

I'm not sure if this is relevant but the New Zealand vintage radio society seems to have a parts department:

http://www.nzvrs.pl.net/aaa/sales.htm

Amongst other things thay have axial 630V caps for NZ$0.50, about 18p, each.

May be worth asking them about their suppliers.
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Old 28th Dec 2006, 6:57 pm   #39
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Default Re: The BVWS Parts department

thats about half the price that we can get them for !!! and there post and packing is very reasonable as well if you live in NZ
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