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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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4th Nov 2018, 8:21 pm | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oban, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 1,129
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Shaft size adjustment
I have just bought the 'perfect' control knob for a project of mine, or so I thought, only to find it has a 1/4" shaft mount where my shaft is actually 6mm - grrrrr (and d'oh).
Is there a simple method to 'gap' the difference? I reckon - tell me if I'm wrong - that a small piece of 0.125mm thick metal would wrap around the 6mm shaft to take up the slack? Is there an 'industry standard' shim (like slivers of coke tin!) that fits the bill or is there something actually made for the task? I'll be more careful to check sizes next time of course. |
4th Nov 2018, 8:28 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,009
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
The flat springy bronze "door weatherstrip" stuff works well in this sort of application.
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4th Nov 2018, 8:44 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 3,990
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
A strip from a roll of aluminium foil works well (the sticky tape stuff, not the Baking foil) Just wrap a couple of turns or so around the shaft. It wouldn't be for a Pye Seafarer would it?
John. |
4th Nov 2018, 9:10 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,768
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
To put 0.175mm into perspective, a piece of 80GSM copier paper is 0.1mm thick (or should I say 'thin'), so a piece of shim cut from an aluminium drinks can would probably be about right. It's remarkable that the eye can detect that a 1/4" knob on a 6mm shaft isn't concentric, but whether that would keep us awake at night, I guess it depends on how fussy we are! Even if it wasn't noticeable, just knowing that it wasn't quite right would probably be a source of irritation to me, which suggests that I have some - as yet - undiagnosed condition.
I'd most likely be rummaging through the re-cycling bin with tinsnips to hand.
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4th Nov 2018, 9:17 pm | #5 |
Banned
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Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines.
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
I wrap 38 swg enameled copper wire round the shaft with a spot of superglue to hold it.
Last edited by Boater Sam; 4th Nov 2018 at 9:17 pm. Reason: spelling |
4th Nov 2018, 10:18 pm | #6 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oban, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 1,129
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
David - little things that catch the eye become 'big' things that annoy! I already have such an arrangement on another piece of equipment but that particular one uses a continuous rotating digital encoder with the knob having a finger recess for speedy turning and the eccentricity bugs the heck out of me....
This latest project - a variable isolated AC power supply - has a variac that only rotates 270 degrees but even that is enough to tick me off if it isn't concentric! Sam - now that sounds like an idea I'd like to try.... nice one! Thanks for all the other ideas. |
4th Nov 2018, 11:48 pm | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
I don't think it's undiagnosed-it just goes with the territory of being an "Engineer"!
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5th Nov 2018, 7:38 pm | #8 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK.
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
I have never tried this but if you filled the hole in the knob with araldite and then ( In a lathe ) drill it out to the correct diameter. Experiment with unwanted items first though!
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6th Nov 2018, 8:45 am | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Shim worked for me.
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6th Nov 2018, 1:03 pm | #10 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,768
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Quote:
A bit fussy some may say, but for me, it's always safety first, functionality second, originality a poor third. As to drilling out knobs, it's a bit more problematical if you have a 6mm knob to fit on a 1/4" shaft. Trying to enlarge a 6mm diameter brass ferrule with a 1/4" twist drill is bound to end it tears, so I thought I'd gently try a 1/4" diam end mill in the tailstock of the lathe. It didn't end well, so I had to resort to using a boring bar in the tool-post, gingerly take off a thou or so at a time. Easy enough to remove metal, but you can't put it back!
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6th Nov 2018, 2:14 pm | #11 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oban, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 1,129
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Solutions that require a lathe are usually beyond the capabilities of most amateurs (much as I'd love to own one!) so shimming is going to have to be the route forward on this occasion.
I'm wondering if the brass insert itself (in the knob) could be wholly removed (?) and potentially replaced with one of the same outer diameter but correct shaft hole? Would it be possible to drill a 1/4" brass rod with a 6mm hole? This could be cross-pinned/glued ovr a 6mm shaft and there's usually enough depth in a knob to allow the extra length to be absorbed.... |
6th Nov 2018, 3:35 pm | #12 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sandiway, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 327
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
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6th Nov 2018, 5:03 pm | #13 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,768
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Quote:
It wouldn't be possible to drill a 6mm hole in a 1/4" brass rod because 1/4" is 6.35mm, so the wall thickness you'd be left with would only be 0.175mm - about 6 thou of an inch - so the wall would simply collapse. You could drill say a 10mm diam rod 6mm diameter on the lathe then turn the wall thickness down to 6.35mm diameter but again, the wall would be so thin that it would collapse. As you say, few have a lathe, and those that do have one would, I'm sure in this instance, use metal shim. As I mentioned elsewhere, to put 0.175mm into perspective, it's slightly less than 2 thicknesses of 80gsm photocopy paper that most of us use in our printers. You can buy phosphor bronze shim but I don't think you'd want to at the price: https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-m...150-pb102.html Cheaper to buy a can of Coke, pour the contents down the gurgler and get out a pair of tinsnips - scissors even!
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6th Nov 2018, 6:52 pm | #14 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Quote:
Phosphor-bronze or Copper/Beryllium "finger stock" is still very much available - it's pretty much the standard way to RF/EMI-seal around panels and access-covers on high-power transmitters etc. |
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6th Nov 2018, 8:12 pm | #15 | |
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Quote:
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6th Nov 2018, 8:55 pm | #16 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sandiway, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 327
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Quote:
Getting back to the subject of this thread, although I have a lathe and am probably capable of making a tubular sleeve I think a shim made from sheet material is far more appropriate for a control knob. Ian |
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7th Nov 2018, 10:18 am | #17 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK.
Posts: 646
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
A bit off topic but for anyone who acquires a lathe, the following book is a mine of information.
"The Amateur's Lathe" L.H. Sparey. My copy is seventh impression 1983 Publisher ARGUS BOOKS LTD. Model & Allied Pubblications, Wolsey Road, Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 4SS ISBN 0 85242 288 1 When I googled the title it seems to be readily available.
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7th Nov 2018, 12:26 pm | #18 |
Dekatron
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Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Out of interest, I cut a piece out of an empty Coca cola tin and measured its thickness: ordinary scissors worked fine. I made it about 0.1mm, not quite thick enough for a close fit, but I suppose making a few indentations would close the gap.
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7th Nov 2018, 3:15 pm | #19 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 387
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
When replacing knobs on old 6mm split shaft pots on guitars etc., brass 'pot sleeeves' are commonly used to solve the problem:-
e.g. Allparts EP-0220-008 https://www.allparts.uk.com/products...lit-shaft-pots i.d. 0.238" (6.05mm) o.d. 0.25"" length 0.375" (Sold as 'for split shaft pots', but should also be good for solid shafts.) Rebadged (?) as 'WD' here:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WD-Music-...4383.l4275.c10 Cheers |
7th Nov 2018, 5:05 pm | #20 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
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Re: Shaft size adjustment
Presumably by 'split shaft pots' they mean the splined ones as shown below.
Sliding a sleeve over the shaft would enable a normal unsplined knob to fit the shaft and would also enable a 1/4" knob to fit a 6mm shaft and to be concentric - not offset. Neat sleeves and not expensive. Well spotted!
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