Sondyna radio. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Riccampbell · 21st Jan 2016, 3:33 pm

I was given this unusual set last night, just to "have a look at". It's a Sondyno Troubadour, E4615E and has a sticker on the back with the date 1948, so it's as old as me.

There is no information or circuit diagram on the site, I wondered if anyone has information that might be useful.

Herald1360 · 21st Jan 2016, 6:35 pm

What's the valve lineup- there's a lot of Troubadours with various versions, something else with the same lineup may be helpful for circuits.

hansomcommon · 21st Jan 2016, 7:15 pm

Don`t forget to pop the mains voltage setting round to 240v.

Walterh · 22nd Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

Hi Chris (an the others)

Sondyna was a Swiss brand and manufactured in Zurich. Nice find this radio, as it has a Special shortwave "magnifier". Tube line up will be 2 x ECH21, EBL21, AZ1 and EM4.

Most probably i have a matching schematic - the one's interested in it, please give me a PM.

Kind regards, Walter

petervk2mlg · 23rd Jan 2016, 11:25 am

I wonder if the company had any affiliation with Mende. The radio is very reminiscent of Mende models.

Walterh · 24th Jan 2016, 1:30 pm

Hi Peter (?)

No, Sondyna had no affiliation with Mende.

From 1932 on, Sondyna sold D.S. Loewe and Körting radios. Then started own construction/fabrication with Willy Studer (later founder of Revox) as developper with the model AK56 (approx. 1936).

Radios were produced till mid 60ies, in the late years some models together with Biennophone.

Kind regards, Walter

petervk2mlg · 24th Jan 2016, 11:48 pm

Hi Walter,
Many thanks for that clarification.
I have radios from many countries. None from Switzerland, however.

Peter

Riccampbell · 2nd Feb 2016, 9:02 pm

I seem to have a fault I have never come across before, admittedly I have limited experience. First of all I tried reforming the electrolytic can, no good, it just got very hot and drew quite a large current. I got a new can from Cricklewood electronics and wired it in. I did no more and plugged the set in through the light limiter.

The bulb did not light up but I got a loud crackling from the speaker followed by what I can only describe as a loud (unaffected by the volume control) rasping tone which then rapidly decreased in frequency. I then switched off the set. There is no smoke or any other alarming sights or sounds. This is all very new to me, any ideas gratefully received. Ric.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 2nd Feb 2016, 11:05 pm

Are you certain that you've wired the new electrolytic correctly. Modern dual-can electrolytics do not (AFAIK) have colour coded terminals, so it would be easy to confuse the negative one with one of the positives, although in such a case I would have expected 'fireworks' due to reversed polarity.

Riccampbell · 3rd Feb 2016, 3:53 pm

Hello livewire, thanks for the reply. First, the can I bought was colour coded, the same as the existing one so that all seems OK. I found a 10MF electrolytic under the chassis that had become detached, and having soldered it back (between the volume control and chassis, C29 on the diagram) my raucous tone disappeared, but still have crackling.

The thing is the diagram I have, sourced from a Swiss member, is for a 4611/4612 set and has quite a few differences from my 4615. The set is dated 1948 and would have not been used for some years, it was found in a loft apparently. Would it be safe to assume that all the smaller electrolytics have deteriorated? and would it be better just to replace them? There is quite a collection of parts from all over the world in the set, a lot of U.S parts, war surplus perhaps? Some of these capacitors are low voltages, I am not sure if I can reform them.

Lastly, and this might seem a silly question to most of you, but can I replace electrolytics with ordinary capacitors of the same capacity and voltage? Ric.

julie_m · 3rd Feb 2016, 7:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riccampbell

Lastly, and this might seem a silly question to most of you, but can I replace electrolytics with ordinary capacitors of the same capacity and voltage? Ric.

You could, if you could find them in the right value ... But you are rather unlikely to. The point of electrolytic capacitors is to get as many Farads as possible into each cubic metre. Electrolytic capacitors generally start at 470 nF and go all the way up to whole Farads; most film capacitor ranges only go up to 1 μF.

Riccampbell · 8th Feb 2016, 6:07 pm

Help! I have replaced all the dubious capacitors, most of which seem to be original. I also replaced a section of wire whose rubber insulation had perished and treated the wave change switch to a dose of servisol.

I have SW, along with the ingenious "Magnifier" which works well, MW has a full range of stations and LW has Radio 4. I have no FM at all. (The wave band selector has the letters PU-UKW, I assume this is FM. Apart from this the set sounds well. Any ideas or suggestions gratefully received.

Ric.

Riccampbell · 8th Feb 2016, 6:13 pm

Following on here is a better attachment for the circuit diagram.

turretslug · 8th Feb 2016, 6:17 pm

I think that it's likely that the PU-UKW selector position is implying usage of an external VHF converter giving line-level audio out- I believe that quite a few devices of this nature were available. When the set was built, there may still have been debate/uncertainty as to frequency band, modulation method etc. that was to be used.

Besides, there aren't really enough bottles in the set to make UltraKurzWelle work, other by some rather short-cut and poorly-perfoming jiggery pokery!

Edit: The circuit confirms it

ms660 · 8th Feb 2016, 6:38 pm

A popular valve for VHF converters of that era was the ECF12 operated as a super regen.

Lawrence.

Riccampbell · 9th Feb 2016, 8:27 pm

Many thanks for the advice/information regarding the FM or not of this set. However, pondering it over last night, whilst trying to get to sleep it occurred to me I had made a fundamental error. Examination of the set proved this was the case. Perhaps there is no FM.

Turretslug may well be correct in that an exterior device of some sort could have been added, hence the UKW part of the PU-UKW. If UKW=Ultrakurzwelle could the PU mean Pick up? there is a socket at the back of the set. I don't know, anyway the SW,MW and LW are all working well so I will return the set to its owner.

Cheers, Ric.

Nickthedentist · 9th Feb 2016, 9:19 pm

Yes, Ric, that "PU-UKW" position is basically to connect the amp/speaker to an external source of your choice. Traditionally, a gramophone pickup (hence the more common "gram" designation on British sets), but in the days when this set was made, a VHF/FM tuner would have been another option, and a way for the marketing department to make an ordinary set seem very up-to-the-minute.

You could always connect a modern personal stereo-type radio to the socket if the owner particularly wants to listen to FM broadcasts.

jjl · 10th Feb 2016, 10:07 am

Ric

The construction of your radio has a very Philips look to it. The speaker in a cloth bag and the rectifier standing on top of the mains transformer are very characteristic of Philips designs. Also, the use of two ECH21 valves and an EBL21 to give a full superhet using only 3 valves plus rectifier was a Philips innovation that was also adopted by Tesla and others, see here

http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~tel0...s/FourTube.htm

I wonder whether Sondyna were a Swiss subsidiary of Philips, or otherwise received technical assistance from them.

John

21st Jan 2016, 3:33 pm	#1
Riccampbell Tetrode Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 98	Sondyna radio. I was given this unusual set last night, just to "have a look at". It's a Sondyno Troubadour, E4615E and has a sticker on the back with the date 1948, so it's as old as me. There is no information or circuit diagram on the site, I wondered if anyone has information that might be useful. Attached Thumbnails

21st Jan 2016, 6:35 pm	#2
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: Sondyna radio. What's the valve lineup- there's a lot of Troubadours with various versions, something else with the same lineup may be helpful for circuits. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

21st Jan 2016, 7:15 pm	#3
hansomcommon Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Alton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 170	Re: Sondyna radio. Don`t forget to pop the mains voltage setting round to 240v.

22nd Jan 2016, 2:03 pm	#4
Walterh Triode Join Date: May 2006 Location: Near Bern, Switzerland. Posts: 48	Re: Sondyna radio. Hi Chris (an the others) Sondyna was a Swiss brand and manufactured in Zurich. Nice find this radio, as it has a Special shortwave "magnifier". Tube line up will be 2 x ECH21, EBL21, AZ1 and EM4. Most probably i have a matching schematic - the one's interested in it, please give me a PM. Kind regards, Walter

23rd Jan 2016, 11:25 am	#5
petervk2mlg Heptode Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Parkes, NSW Australia Posts: 877	Re: Sondyna radio. I wonder if the company had any affiliation with Mende. The radio is very reminiscent of Mende models.

24th Jan 2016, 1:30 pm	#6
Walterh Triode Join Date: May 2006 Location: Near Bern, Switzerland. Posts: 48	Re: Sondyna radio. Hi Peter (?) No, Sondyna had no affiliation with Mende. From 1932 on, Sondyna sold D.S. Loewe and Körting radios. Then started own construction/fabrication with Willy Studer (later founder of Revox) as developper with the model AK56 (approx. 1936). Radios were produced till mid 60ies, in the late years some models together with Biennophone. Kind regards, Walter Attached Thumbnails

24th Jan 2016, 11:48 pm	#7
petervk2mlg Heptode Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Parkes, NSW Australia Posts: 877	Re: Sondyna radio. Hi Walter, Many thanks for that clarification. I have radios from many countries. None from Switzerland, however. Peter

2nd Feb 2016, 9:02 pm	#8
Riccampbell Tetrode Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 98	Re: Sondyna radio. I seem to have a fault I have never come across before, admittedly I have limited experience. First of all I tried reforming the electrolytic can, no good, it just got very hot and drew quite a large current. I got a new can from Cricklewood electronics and wired it in. I did no more and plugged the set in through the light limiter. The bulb did not light up but I got a loud crackling from the speaker followed by what I can only describe as a loud (unaffected by the volume control) rasping tone which then rapidly decreased in frequency. I then switched off the set. There is no smoke or any other alarming sights or sounds. This is all very new to me, any ideas gratefully received. Ric. Attached Thumbnails

2nd Feb 2016, 11:05 pm	#9
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: Sondyna radio. Are you certain that you've wired the new electrolytic correctly. Modern dual-can electrolytics do not (AFAIK) have colour coded terminals, so it would be easy to confuse the negative one with one of the positives, although in such a case I would have expected 'fireworks' due to reversed polarity.

3rd Feb 2016, 3:53 pm	#10
Riccampbell Tetrode Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 98	Re: Sondyna radio. Hello livewire, thanks for the reply. First, the can I bought was colour coded, the same as the existing one so that all seems OK. I found a 10MF electrolytic under the chassis that had become detached, and having soldered it back (between the volume control and chassis, C29 on the diagram) my raucous tone disappeared, but still have crackling. The thing is the diagram I have, sourced from a Swiss member, is for a 4611/4612 set and has quite a few differences from my 4615. The set is dated 1948 and would have not been used for some years, it was found in a loft apparently. Would it be safe to assume that all the smaller electrolytics have deteriorated? and would it be better just to replace them? There is quite a collection of parts from all over the world in the set, a lot of U.S parts, war surplus perhaps? Some of these capacitors are low voltages, I am not sure if I can reform them. Lastly, and this might seem a silly question to most of you, but can I replace electrolytics with ordinary capacitors of the same capacity and voltage? Ric.

8th Feb 2016, 6:07 pm	#12
Riccampbell Tetrode Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 98	Re: Sondyna radio. Help! I have replaced all the dubious capacitors, most of which seem to be original. I also replaced a section of wire whose rubber insulation had perished and treated the wave change switch to a dose of servisol. I have SW, along with the ingenious "Magnifier" which works well, MW has a full range of stations and LW has Radio 4. I have no FM at all. (The wave band selector has the letters PU-UKW, I assume this is FM. Apart from this the set sounds well. Any ideas or suggestions gratefully received. Ric.

8th Feb 2016, 6:13 pm	#13
Riccampbell Tetrode Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 98	Re: Sondyna radio. Following on here is a better attachment for the circuit diagram. Attached Thumbnails

8th Feb 2016, 6:17 pm	#14
turretslug Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 4,400	Re: Sondyna radio. I think that it's likely that the PU-UKW selector position is implying usage of an external VHF converter giving line-level audio out- I believe that quite a few devices of this nature were available. When the set was built, there may still have been debate/uncertainty as to frequency band, modulation method etc. that was to be used. Besides, there aren't really enough bottles in the set to make UltraKurzWelle work, other by some rather short-cut and poorly-perfoming jiggery pokery! Edit: The circuit confirms it Last edited by turretslug; 8th Feb 2016 at 6:37 pm.

8th Feb 2016, 6:38 pm	#15
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Sondyna radio. A popular valve for VHF converters of that era was the ECF12 operated as a super regen. Lawrence.

9th Feb 2016, 8:27 pm	#16
Riccampbell Tetrode Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 98	Re: Sondyna radio. Many thanks for the advice/information regarding the FM or not of this set. However, pondering it over last night, whilst trying to get to sleep it occurred to me I had made a fundamental error. Examination of the set proved this was the case. Perhaps there is no FM. Turretslug may well be correct in that an exterior device of some sort could have been added, hence the UKW part of the PU-UKW. If UKW=Ultrakurzwelle could the PU mean Pick up? there is a socket at the back of the set. I don't know, anyway the SW,MW and LW are all working well so I will return the set to its owner. Cheers, Ric.

9th Feb 2016, 9:19 pm	#17
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,865	Re: Sondyna radio. Yes, Ric, that "PU-UKW" position is basically to connect the amp/speaker to an external source of your choice. Traditionally, a gramophone pickup (hence the more common "gram" designation on British sets), but in the days when this set was made, a VHF/FM tuner would have been another option, and a way for the marketing department to make an ordinary set seem very up-to-the-minute. You could always connect a modern personal stereo-type radio to the socket if the owner particularly wants to listen to FM broadcasts. Last edited by Nickthedentist; 9th Feb 2016 at 9:27 pm.

10th Feb 2016, 10:07 am	#18
jjl Octode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ware, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,082	Re: Sondyna radio. Ric The construction of your radio has a very Philips look to it. The speaker in a cloth bag and the rectifier standing on top of the mains transformer are very characteristic of Philips designs. Also, the use of two ECH21 valves and an EBL21 to give a full superhet using only 3 valves plus rectifier was a Philips innovation that was also adopted by Tesla and others, see here http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~tel0...s/FourTube.htm I wonder whether Sondyna were a Swiss subsidiary of Philips, or otherwise received technical assistance from them. John