PYE Vinyl 78s

[Heatercathodeshort]

The PYE record factory was just a short distance from my old shop. It was situated in Bond Road Mitcham and built originally as the Holborn and District Work House.
The COLUMBIA laminated records of the late 20's early 30's are outstanding and approach the quality of the late vinyl records. John.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by vidjoman

Their pressing plant had been refurbished with new equipment and the old shellac presses and machines removed.

That's very interesting what you say there. However, if this was the case, can you explain how there was a choice to have either the vinyl or the shellac version of exactly the same record? Same artist, same 10" 78rpm, same date, same Pye label, same A & B side, except one version would be on traditional shellac and one would be on vinyl. I've got examples of this in my collection and will see if I can find an example and post a picture of two records the same, but pressed on different materials later as proof.

[Edward Huggins]

Now for some nerdish detail....is their any diffrence in the engraved number inscription/s on the surface of the vinyl or shellac? These markings are usually found between the end of run out and edge of the label.

[Techman]

I've just been looking in a box where I thought there may be examples of these vinyl and shellac recordings by the same artist and so far haven't been able to locate them. There are thousands of records in different places and although my index for 45rpm records has been kept up to date, the index for 78s went to the wall a few of decades ago, so locating them is going to be 'interesting'. However, I just 'Googled' an artist I seem to remember was available on both 10" 78 materials and I note that their main label was Mercury and not Pye, so I may have been telling you wrong in the above post, but the question I posed remains the same. I'll carry on looking for examples of the records - I know they're at least in the house somewhere, rather than on the racking in the garage.

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Now for some nerdish detail....is their any diffrence in the engraved number inscription/s on the surface of the vinyl or shellac? These markings are usually found between the end of run out and edge of the label.

Do you mean the matrix number?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_number

[vidjoman]

Techman - It could be that there were existing stock of the shellac version around in wholesalers stock which gradually got sent to dealers. It's also possible that the shellac version was pressed at another plant, especially if it was a hit record that sold in large quantities and the Pye plant couldn't keep up with demand.
I was given the info I posted earlier from a sales rep while in my favourite record shop.

[emeritus]

Just researched my record. Seems that I scanned the B side. The A side is "I'll be with you in apple blossom time", which did make it into the UK charts in 1959. The singer's discography lists four different pressings of the 45 version, but the 78 version is not mentioned.

[Audio1950]

I have copies of Lonnie Donegans' "Puttin' on the style" on the Pye label, and The Platters "Only You" on the Mercury label, on both vinyl and shellac.

Incidentally, both vinyl copies have been played with "soft tone" steel needles on acoustic gramophones for years, and have suffered no apparent damage!

[Edward Huggins]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

Do you mean the matrix number?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_number

I certainly did. But a lot of people may not know what this means - hence my detail.

[paulsherwin]

No criticism implied Edward, I was just trying to clarify.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by Audio1950

I have copies of Lonnie Donegans' "Puttin' on the style" on the Pye label, and The Platters "Only You" on the Mercury label, on both vinyl and shellac.

Incidentally, both vinyl copies have been played with "soft tone" steel needles on acoustic gramophones for years, and have suffered no apparent damage!

Yes, they're the ones.

I've found the Platters "Only You (And You Alone)" on both shellac and vinyl. This was actually the 'B' side of "The Great Pretender" from 'Rock around the clock', the same song that Queen did a version of years later. The matrix number on the shellac record has the suffix '1' on both sides. On the vinyl record the 'A' side has the suffix '4' indicating a forth generation stamper, whereas the 'B' side still has the suffix '1' the same as the shellac version, indicating that it was still using the first generation stamper to stamp out this vinyl copy side.

John and Barry both say that there's no harm done playing these vinyl 78s with steel needles and I think this is something that we can argue about until the cows come home, but my view is that so long as the records are always played with a heavy pickup or soundbox, then any degradation or increased surface noise will never be really noticeable. However, I wouldn't mind betting that if the same records were played on a much more modern light weight pickup before and after the many plays with steel needles, then I think a difference would be noticeable. I've certainly got a lot of records from the 50s that I'm pretty sure have been damaged by being previously played on old gramophones with steel needles. I certainly trashed a few 50s 78s on my first gramophone when I was 10 or 12 years old and I would have picked the loudest tone needles for maximum noise!

Pictures of both sides of the two records below with the shellac below and on the left on both pictures. The vinyl has a typical slight bevel to the edge, whereas the shellac has a straight edge. The camera flash certainly shows up the surface cosmetic scratching from them being slid around together without covers during their long life. I'm going to play them in a while to remind me how well they both actually play.

[Techman]

I've just played both records and they play alright, just as I remembered them playing before, but it's been a while. Both 'A' sides are very slightly stamped off centre, whereas both 'B' sides are on centre. Barry quoted the 'B' side as the main tune and something in the back of my mind seems to tell me that this was one of those records where the 'B' side actually got more recognition at the time and was actually regarded as the 'A' side, regardless of the record label saying otherwise. I think both records have been previously played with steel needles, but certainly not in my ownership, although they both play well enough for 60 plus year old records.

Pictures below of both records playing using a light weight pickup (probably 7g ish) fitted with a Garrard GC8 crystal cartridge, ideal for these old records. The flash shows the amount of dust on the deck plate thrown off the many filthy old 78s that have been played on it and honestly I do clean it and dust it occasionally. Time to play a few more old 78s now and wake the neighbours

[rontech]

Love the Radiogram!