Looking for a 3 speed 10.5 inch reel to reel

[Timvintage]

Hi everyone, hope everyone is keeping safe in these times.

I was wondering, does anyone know if there are any reel to reels that run at the slower speed of 1 7/8, as well as 3 3/4 and 7 1/2? I currently have a three speed tandberg 3641xD which is great but can only play up to 7 inch reels. As I have limited space, it would be great to be able to have a machine that can accommodate the 10.5 inch reels, but also be able to play smaller reels on it that were recorded at 1 7/8.
I am always picking up different tapes, as I collect recordings of radio shows etc, and I also digitised these so that others can listen to them.
Thanks, Tim

[Boulevardier]

If I recall correctly, the Brennels (three switched speeds) could provide all four speeds by the use of two different (easily interchangeable) capstan sleeves, which were normally provided as standard accessories. These decks/recorders were also available as NAB spool versions with the same speed arrangements. The NAB versions will be much rarer and will be difficult to find (and good luck with their far-from-friendly tape handling!).

Mike

[Timvintage]

Hi Mike,
Thanks very much for the info. That’s very interesting.
However, if the tape handling isn’t very friendly, it might not be the best machine for me, as some of the tapes I come across are very old so need to be treated delicately.

[TIMTAPE]

A low speed (LS) version of a Revox A77 or B77 does the two slower speeds but I don't think ex factory versions are that common.

I have a "super slow speed" (SLS) A77 which does 15/16, and 1 7/8 ips but again not very common. Radio stations used these for long run logging of broadcasts to satisfy govt requirements.

Probably most slow speed recorded tapes were recorded on reels 7" or smaller, and often used thin, long playing tape. At least the Revox A77/B77 weren't designed to play these small reel/thin base tapes. Very easy to damage such tapes with excessive tensions. The same goes for probably any basic 10.5" reel machine which doesn't have a true constant tape tension facility. Yes, gentle tape handling is very important with thin based tapes especially when they are played on small hub diameter reels where tensions can go very high. Even the "small reel" setting can be still too much tension for such tapes and reels.

Do you have some 10.5" NAB reels recorded at 1 7/8ips?

[Timvintage]

Thanks TimTape. No I don’t have any 10.5 inch tapes recorded at 1 7/8, it’s only smaller reels that I have that are recorded at slower speeds, as you say. It’s just that it would be nice to have a machine that could play these smaller reels, as well as nab reels, that also had three speeds, so that I could have one machine that did everything.

[Ted Kendall]

Rather against my usual line, I'm wondering whether a Ferrograph Super Seven might do what you want. This had issues, to be sure, but most can now be circumvented and, usefully if you are playing old tapes, it has pressure pads (the later Logic Seven didn't). The fast wind is continuously variable, allowing kid glve teatment of delicate tapes. If cost were no object, I'd say get one of the rare low speed Revox A700s, with quarter and half track headblocks.

[Timvintage]

Thanks Ted,
Do these have three speeds though?

[Ted Kendall]

Yes. Both Ferrograph Sevens and Revox A700s are three speed. The S7 came in standard and high speed versions, and the one you want is the standard, without the H suffix to the type number. Note also that only the Super Seven has the combination of pressure pads and NAB spool capacity. They're thin on the ground, though - as are low speed A700s.

[Timvintage]

Thanks, that’s really useful to know. Yeah I just did an eBay search and there is none available at the moment, but it’s worth me keeping a look out for one. I can’t remember, would the pressure pads cause a problem for playing slightly newer tapes?

[rontech]

I had a Brenell mk 5 which could accommodate 8.5 " spools. It had the usual two capstan sleeve arrangement

[wd40addict]

The Mk510 deck was an extra 7Gns and would take 10.5" spools. However they're pretty rare and probably not the best thing for delicate tapes.

This was brought home to me recently when my 8.25" Brenell deck snapped a probably double play old 60s tape during spooling. My Cossor (Philips) handled it just fine!

You also don't mention whether you want 1/2 or 1/4 track. For best replay of found tapes you really need both.

[DMcMahon]

Braun TG 1000/TG 1020 have the 4 standard lower tape speeds (selectable/controlled by the electronics) up to 7.5 ips (some have conversion to 15 ips) but only up to max spool size of 8.25" (not NAB normally).

[TIMTAPE]

Originally Posted by Timvintage

... I can’t remember, would the pressure pads cause a problem for playing slightly newer tapes?

Yes back coated tapes don't like pressure pads because the back coating is a deliberately rough surface and there can be too much friction at the pressure pad.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Timvintage

Thanks, that’s really useful to know. Yeah I just did an eBay search and there is none available at the moment, but it’s worth me keeping a look out for one. I can’t remember, would the pressure pads cause a problem for playing slightly newer tapes?

Good point - pads can cause scrape on matt backed tapes but are useful with old acetate or mylar tapes suffering from warping or cupping. I suppose if there were one machine that did it all, everybody woud be after it. Grafting a pressure pad onto a Studer is a pain, but I've done it in cases of need - that or the good ol' engineer's thumb...

[DMcMahon]

Is there an easy way to identify if a tape is back coated ? and is the back coated surface the opposite side to the playing surface side ?

What sort of date did back coated tapes start coming out ?

[Welsh Anorak]

Was the Logic Seven three speed? I rather think it was, though not sure which three speeds! A bit academic as they are hard to find. Of course there's the Revox A700, but these excellent machines are very pricey.

[gramofiend]

Have you considered double speed transfer of the material say repro of 1 7/8ips at 3 3/4 ips and re record at 7 1/2 ips, then play back the result at 3 3/4 ips. It obviously requires strict attention to repro azimuth alignment of the original but you seem to have knowledge for what you are doing and having laid off recordings from damaged cassettes and various low speed 1/4 inch efforts over the years, I can assure you that it is intelligible and can be quite musical and preservable. I believe there is also software that enables you to place it directly into digitised state and then corect up or down for the speed.
Of course if any of the machines has mechanical problems such as a square capstan or pinch roller, those things have to be sorted first.

I do hope you do not think what I suggest is too primitive and unsophisticated but it is something which has worked way in the past and depends for quality on the source matarial! With modern computer software right at the end the results can be very acceptable.

Necessity can often be the mother of invention!

Mike

[Boulevardier]

Originally Posted by DMcMahon

Is there an easy way to identify if a tape is back coated ? and is the back coated surface the opposite side to the playing surface side ?

What sort of date did back coated tapes start coming out ?

Yes, very easy. Back-coated tapes have a dull, matt, and rough surface on the back (the side away from the heads). Non back-coated tapes are typically shiny, smooth and reflective on the back.

Don't know when they first appeared, but they were certainly around in the late 1960s/early 1970s.

Mike

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by DMcMahon

Braun TG 1000/TG 1020 have the 4 standard lower tape speeds (selectable/controlled by the electronics) up to 7.5 ips (some have conversion to 15 ips) but only up to max spool size of 8.25" (not NAB normally).

Correction, I should have said "3 standard lower tape speeds".

[Reelman]

An alternative to consider is the Philips N4450 as it does the 3 required speeds and can handle 10.5” spools, although preferably non-NAB plastic ones. They regularly appear on eBay but only come as 4 track, there never was a 2 track version.
Best of all, there is a wealth of knowledge on repairing them here and a few members admit to owning them as well!

Good luck Tim,
Peter