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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 1:17 pm   #1
G0PKH - Pete
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Default Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Hi all.

I have been a member of these forums for many years, and although I have not contributed a great deal to the conversations. I have been regularly paying great attention to the restoration work of others.

In particular the recent TV chassis restoration that Col (retired) has been working on. Fantastic stuff Col, well done.

I would however like to share with you, one project that I have been working on over the last year, and that is a Rock-Ola Jukebox.

I have always been fascinated by their operation, and have been hankering after one (at the right price) for many years.

Just under a year ago, at a bootsale in fact, whilst I was selling a few cds and dvds. I was approached by this chap and got talking about old records, music etc.

He mentioned that a pal of his had an old jukebox that he wanted shot off, did I know anyone who wanted one?

The best bit, it was free and they would even deliver. Too good to be true I thought.

But he was true to his word, a couple of days later it was standing in my garage.

So, on to the restoration, what on earth had I let myself in for, it looked a mess, the wife said it was horrible, and did I want a hand to take it to the tip?

It was a real basket case, but I was determined to have a play nonetheless.

After a good visual check, it was obviously in a bad way.
Cabinet damaged and filthy internally. No stylus, all fuses missing, main deck appeared to be seized too, some switches broken on the amplifier unit, lamps missing etc, etc.



So how to start ?

Well I had acquired a 1978 Rock-ola 474 Sybaris ; Not the nicest looking machine, but definitely at the right price.

Well the first thing of course, I needed a service manual (don't even think about trying to work it out for yourself).

Once this was obtained, I sat for many hours digesting the information and trying to understand how the thing worked. The manual was rather strange in that it detailed every operational stage the machine took, during the selection, playing and then replacement of the record.

I have read a lot of service manuals in the past, but I must say that this concept was very unusual to me, it took some time to understand it too.

It then became apparent that my machine was a bitsa (bits from here and bits from there).

In particular the credit unit, this was from a different machine entirely, and was mechanical rather than electronic as it should have been for this model. Plus the credit accumulator that was fitted had two coils burned out.

The coin mech was clearly not UK (I subsequently managed to obtain a UK unit that took 20, 50P and £1 coins).

The front frame around the control panel was missing

One main speaker driver O/C voice coil

Amplifier had switches broken

PSU module didn't look too healthy either, I didn't dare apply power.


My first job then was to service the main mechanism. Numerous photos were taken, the deck disconnected and lifted onto the bench. I then removed and dismantled both motors, one for the mag rotation, the other for the gripper arm. These were stripped, all the grease removed and given a thorough check.

The armatures were very badly worn, there were deep groves worn in the commutators to almost 2mm in depth.

I was really fortunate after a lot of googling to find a chap in the US who had some NOS armatures, these were fitted and the motors regreased along with the rest of the deck, he was also able to supply me with the control panel frame and a few other cabinet parts too.

The next job, To take each module apart and clean/check/repair as required.

Starting with the PSU then.

1) New mains lead

2) New capacitors where required.

3) These machines use an internal bulb as a braking resistance
for the magazine motor, the bulb holder had fallen apart, this was repaired and also as a backup the wires soldered directly
to the bulb.

4) check condition of rectifiers, fuses etc replace as necessary.

Finally, I felt it was safe to power the module and check all required voltages were present.

Next, the credit module

This was clearly the incorrect unit since the 474 and its smaller brother the 473 should have an electronic unit fitted. This electronic unit has an LSI accumulator chip and a delay circuit on a plug in module fitted within.

I was fortunate to get the correct unit from an online supplier, however the plug in delay module was not obtainable. Looking at the wiring diagram for the machine I was able to work out the schematic for this small 1 transistor module, and build my own on a small piece of veroboard which could plug into the socket within the credit unit.

Problem solved.

Amplifier

This was in a fairly poor condition, with lots of caps of unknown condition.
Fortunately it is completely modular internally, and there were no signs of any blown silicon.

All the caps were replaced, and all the dodgy looking presets for bias etc were replaced. The bias pots were replaced with 10 turn presets for much easier and finer readjustment.

All internal connectors cleaned, and broken switches replaced.

Selection unit and button panel.

The button panel is a very complex mass of multiway slide switches, with the extra complication of a latching assembly which holds in the button pressed of the last digit, until the write motor has written the selection to the pin bank.
This consists of a solenoid, various micro and leaf switches.
Someone obviously decided that they needed the leaf switch, since there was a vacant 2pole socket where it should have been connected.
I had to make one up from a small bracket of aluminium and a leaf switch acquired from an old telephone.

The selection unit is a box containing 2 relays and a PCB containing a handful of SCR's with associated diodes, caps etc.

It was decided to check all the components on this board, and replace any found faulty or out of tolerance.

Display assembly.

The small display (RECORD NOW PLAYING) unit comprises of 3x 7 segment LED displays driven from a complex wiper board on the end of the main mech spindle, this feeds into a small PCB which contains lots of 1N4001 steering diodes to supply the correct sequence to the LED displays.

Quite a few of these diodes were faulty, I ended up changing them all.

Finally it was time to clean, repair and repaint the cabinet parts where required.

Finally I could reassemble the thing, (good job I took lots of photos beforehand) and re-align the mech and amp etc.

Upon testing, I was unable at first to make any selections, this was caused by a faulty contact on the selection switch bank. This was corrected by very carefully retensioning all contacts on the switch bank assembly (no mean feat, I can tell you).

The machine would then select ok, but no write-in motor operation. Fault caused by a faulty relay contact. A number of contacts were found to be quite burned in fact. i decided to change them all since there is only about 5 used. I was able to get it working temporarily by cleaning the contacts while I waited for replacements.

Finally yesterday, I was able to complete the reassembly of the machine and place it in its new home, our newly built conservatory.

I can't tell you how it feels to have restored such a piece of our music history.

In this day of iPods, MP3's, streaming media etc.
You cannot (In my opinion) beat the feeling of operating an old fashioned jukebox.

Granted being a 70's machine, it is not the most asthetically pleasing machine, and not even worth much.

I have spent more than it is worth on restoring it. But the sense of acheivement is in my opinion worth it.

I hope you have enjoyed reading this success story, as I have enjoyed restoring and now using (and more to the point seeing my wife using) this old jukebox.

If however you have been thoroughly bored by it all, then I apologise.



Pete
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 1:45 pm   #2
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Nice write up very nice juke box.
Excellent.

Lawrence
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 1:51 pm   #3
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

I hope you have some singles with the centres pushed out!

Or does it take standard singles?


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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 2:02 pm   #4
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Hi Guys

Thanks PWDrive.

Yes Sean, one of the requirements for me was that it took both types of singles.

The turntable has what is known as an Intermix system.
This detects the size of the centre hole, if its small then it selects 33 1/3 RPM (there are some 7" disks that run at this speed)

If the record has the large hole (dinked) then it would select 45RPM.
It was easy enough to modify the speed selector mech to use 45RPM all the time. So now it does not matter whether the single has a large or a small hole.

Obviously however it will no longer play 33 1/3 disks (I only have 1 out of 500 so no great loss)

Pete
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 11:25 pm   #5
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Very nice jukebox, great writeup too.
Something ive always wanted to own myself, reading what you have gone through you need to be of stout heart and really love the machine.
once again well done and nice to see another classic machine rescued from oblivion
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Last edited by Records; 3rd Oct 2011 at 11:26 pm. Reason: spelling error
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 7:31 pm   #6
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Nice job and (I think) a nice looking Jukebox too!
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 11:26 pm   #7
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Well done!

I have a "459" which is an earlier model but uses the same record mechanism and, as you say, there is something very special about playing favourite records on such a thing. I remember them well from motorway services in the 70's and was always fascinated by them.

Next step is getting a "wall box" remote selector for it - and making it work, that was hard work but very rewarding when it finally did it!

All the Best
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 2:18 am   #8
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyball View Post
I have a "459" which is an earlier model but uses the same record mechanism
I'm glad you made that point about the mechanism. I was contemplating asking the question as I've had a few machines with that mechanism. I've still got a spare amplifier and output transformers which I've used as a stand alone unit. The tapped volume pot was a very important item.

I like that mechanism, very reliable, smooth and quiet in operation although I never managed to get a wall box.The jukeboxes have been gone a few years but I think I could squeeze one in somewhere again. There's nothing like making your selection and hearing the sound burst out - very loud preferably.

Jim
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 8:31 am   #9
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Thanks for your comments gents much appreciated.

Hmm a wall box (or stepper unit as I think they are called) that would be an interesting addition, and I am sure a real challenge to get working. These things are challenging enough on their own . I will have to look out for one. Not quite sure what model supports the 474, I will look into it.

Well done on the 459 Bobbyball. I like the styling of that box a little better actually. I think yours is the 100 selection mech, am I right ? In which case almost identical to the 473 machine, I think yours uses the mechanical credit accumulator too (which I found in mine originally).

I must say the mech is a delight to watch. And generally it seems very reliable, with the most problems coming from those motors.

I think I was very lucky to get NOS armatures for those, I even have two sets of new spare brushes, although when I tried to use the brushes the motors were not happy (huge current consumption) maybe they were too long. If I need to use them in the future, I may cut them down in length a bit, they are pattern ones after all. Normally those motors when run from a 28V dc source take about 0.5A unloaded.

Jim, You mentioned the tapped volume pot, alas that is something which my machine doesn't have. When I got it the volume control remote unit was missing, as was the volume control pot on the amp itself. There is a small circuit board retrofitted inside the amp which contains 2 electronic attenuator chips (can't remember the type off hand) these are controlled by a dual pot in a new remote control box which I built.

The remote control box also houses a free credit button and the cancel button.

I would like to source the original volume control module(s) but don't hold much hope.

Pete
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 10:55 am   #10
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0PKH - Pete View Post
Jim, You mentioned the tapped volume pot, alas that is something which my machine doesn't have. When I got it the volume control remote unit was missing, as was the volume control pot on the amp itself. There is a small circuit board retrofitted inside the amp which contains 2 electronic attenuator chips (can't remember the type off hand) these are controlled by a dual pot in a new remote control box which I built.
I was fairly lucky when I was working on jukeboxes in the 1990s as I did a lot of work for Terry Price who had masses of spares and a large circle of contacts. The tapped pot was difficult to find even then and I remember trying to wire up an external series parallel resistor arrangement but it never worked as well as the proper version. The tap on the pot made a substantial difference to the bass response of the amplifiers.

Jim
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 5:09 pm   #11
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Hi Jim

We don't have an issue with how the machine sounds at low volume as it is. We think it
sounds wonderful but it would be nice to get the either the original pot, or the remote unit.

The local pot was removed along with the PEC5 thick film module (Packaged Electronic Components as Rock-Ola used to call them),the fly lead including 5 pin plug and socket.

Pete
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 11:55 pm   #12
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Hi, yes the 459 is the 100 selection model (takes 50 records). It weights more than anything I have ever tried to move! Heaven knows what th 460 model with 80 records weighs!!

I can't say I have "fully" restored mine, it was bought in working condition (about 18 years ago now!). However I replaced several caps in the amp, including the main smoother, which cured quite a bad hum, and latterly the gromments supporting the motor. It can only play "dinked" records at the moment but I might try and get the turntable you use in yours and do the mod.

As for a wallbox, yes that WAS a challenge. I remember buying one - Model 506 "Tri-Vue" at the NVCF years and years ago, and the truly miserable chap I bought it off assured me I would never get it working as I would need a "stepper" (whatever that was at the time!) and they were like hen's teeth etc!!

A few years passed and I was idly browsing the 'net as I do and came across a French jukebox furum (I am bilingual) - a lady there had my 569 and a 507 wallbox which is a "mechanical" version of the 506 which is full of early logic chips (about 28). The lady described how she had to find a "stepper" and fit it inside the machine. I was hooked and managed to find one, Model 1769, although it was mechanically jammed and needed a rebuild. Finally connected up to th 506 and - nothing!! By that time I had a 507 as well and this worked, so the 506 must have electronic problems - guess Mr Misery was "half" right. The stepper needs some fiine adjustment as sometimes selecting a record on the wallbox picks the wrong record.

Family problems intervened for a few years and now the dust is starting to settle I will get round to fully refurbing the amps and try and fit the quieter gripper motor I managed to find.

I'm not all that familiar with your "Sybaris" machine (though I like it's lights!), however if it's selection method is entirely mechanical like the 459, and from your write-up it sounds like it is, then the 1759 Stepper (or "receiver" will work in it too. You can use the earlier wallboxes as well (the ones with the flipping pages) - if you can find one worth restoring - as they all rely on sending a pulse train to the steeper which interfaces between the selector unit on the main box and the pinwheels.

The 459 does have a mechanical credit unit which can be "adapted" for free play, although the "make selection" light then stays on all the time.

Keep on Jukin'

All the Best

Robert Ball
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Old 8th Oct 2011, 10:08 am   #13
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

pete, thats a fine machine, their is little more satisfying than bringing these old girls back to life. styling on those rock-ola's is fab....pure 70's. i am sure it sounds like thunder as well! i still have my wurlitzer 3810 from 1974, last american wurlitzer. it has little value but priceless to me and much admired by all that slip the a florin in the coin slot. i love the bits and bobs you find in the boxes...the title cards from yesteryear and the odd earing, bit of bubble gum etc. i cant help wondering where she's been and what she's seen. sorry for being a bit over nostalgic but i have to applaud anyone who takes the considerable time and trouble to put a juke box wreck back on the road.

nick.
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Old 8th Oct 2011, 12:38 pm   #14
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Look on the web for Jukebox spares, there are plenty about - try these people

http://www.jukeboxparts.co.uk

I have used them and they are very good. They have 1759 steppers and also spare amp modules, you might find one with a similar volume control. I managed to get a "remote" volume unit for mine from the States about 4 years ago, it's a plug-in replacement for the original control and uses a clever circuit with op amps that "mimics" the pot but without sending the actual signal down a long wire where it could pick up hum etc.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 4:20 pm   #15
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Thanks again folks for the kind comments.

The Juke is performing better than ever now, The final part was to refit the
mechanical popularity wheel. I can now see what the most played records are.

Bobby

Thanks for your detailed reply regarding the wall box, stepper and remote volume unit. I used jukeboxparts.co.uk many times during the restoration actually, in fact it was he that helped with the turntable parts.
He does have a couple of steppers available there.
However for the moment I have decided to leave the machine just as it is.

One thing I could do with however are two new Gas Struts that hold the lid up. I have to use a broom handle at present

I am intrigued by the remote volume unit you mention, I will have to look out for it. Mind, the one I built sends control voltages to the attenuator IC's in the amp, so there is no need for long screened cables which is good.

Pete
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 4:32 pm   #16
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

The remote volume control on Seeburg juke boxes is simply a double pole centre-off changeover switch, which reverses / disconnects the power supply to a motor which turns the pot on the amplifier via a reduction drive!
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 4:38 pm   #17
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Hi

Thanks for that.

I have just found on ebay, a guy in the states selling a genuine rock-ola remote control kit exactly as Bobby described.

That will fit my machine perfectly
It is even supplied with the cable (plug fitted) which plugs into the amplifier unit.
I just need to find the original 6 PIN socket to fix back on the amp (the original was removed when the retrofit attenuator unit was fitted).

I guess if push comes to shove I could use a 6PIN DIN plug and socket.

Pete
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Old 16th Nov 2011, 2:09 pm   #18
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Good Luck with the remote kit, keep us posted!!

Robert
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Old 16th Nov 2011, 2:32 pm   #19
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Great looking machine; styling is fantastic! I love it, you are so lucky to have it, I would find a place for it instantly if it came my way--and being from the 1970s is no bad thing-the 70s was a very long time ago now. 31-41 years!
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Old 16th Nov 2011, 3:06 pm   #20
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Default Re: Rock-Ola Jukebox 474 Sybaris

Very nice looking machine. I have owned a 455 model for about 30 years. Takes pride of place in the living room and get used regular, Mine only takes 50 singles.
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