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Old 8th Sep 2018, 8:41 pm   #1
CambridgeWorks
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Default Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

Mods. Firstly, I do apologise if this is not an allowed topic and please delete.
Just been browsing ebay site regarding old valve type amateur radio tx. I looked at the rules of ebay regarding transmitters in general. I thought this may warn fellow forum members considering selling on ebay. It stated this:

Radio transmitting equipment: Radio transmitting equipment may only be listed on eBay if it complies with the R&TTE Directive. Equipment that complies is marked with the 'CE' mark.

So, it seems, any old, home brew item, kit, WW2 vintage or whatever type tx is NOT allowed to be sold on their site!
Be warned!

I am NOT wanting discussions about ebay rules in general, just a reason WHY they say the CE mark is mandatory? Could it be that their reason is based on GENERAL UK LAW regarding the sale of ALL transmitters? THAT IS THE SUBJECT that I would like to see discussed here. PLEASE, NOT EBAY!
I do know discussions about pirate or illegal transmissions are not allowed on this forum. But, to maybe condemn non CE marked, maybe even vintage WW2 collectable gear as illegal? Seems a bit OTT!
Rob
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Last edited by CambridgeWorks; 8th Sep 2018 at 8:42 pm. Reason: spelling
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 9:04 pm   #2
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

I am not a lawyer, and eBay are free to impose any rules that they wish, but my understanding is that there are no legal restrictions on buying and selling transmitters of any type (with a few specific exceptions). It is illegal to use transmitters without having the appropriate licensing in place.

No further discussion of eBay rules please.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 9:10 pm   #3
Station X
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

I suspect that eBay will only remove a non-compliant listing if someone reports it.

This auction ran its course:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kw-2000-b...p2047675.l2557
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 3:59 pm   #4
broadgage
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

A few years ago I purchased online a couple of one watt FM transmitters, legal to sell or to own but not legal to use in the UK.

It was for export to Africa, where AFAIK it is still in use for a local radio station, one unit in daily use and the other as a spare.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 5:30 pm   #5
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

The R&TTE Directive 1999/5/EC has been replaced by DIRECTIVE 2014/53/EU of 16 April 2014. I found the Draft Radio Equipment Regulations 2017 here:
https://assets.publishing.service.go...egulations.pdf
Definitions include:
“place on the market” means the first making available on the EU market of radio equipment,
The Scope is defined:
3.—(1) These Regulations apply to radio equipment.
(2) These Regulations do not apply to—
(a) radio equipment which has been placed on the market before [date on which Regulations come into force],
(b) equipment listed in Schedule 1 (radio equipment outside the scope of these Regulations), or
Schedule 1
Radio equipment outside the scope of these Regulations
1.—(1) Radio equipment used by radio amateurs within the meaning of Article 1, definition 56, of the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) Radio Regulations(a), unless the equipment is made available on the market.
(2) The following must be regarded as not being made available on the market—
(a) radio kits for assembly and use by radio amateurs,
(b) radio equipment modified by and for the use of radio amateurs, and
(c) equipment constructed by individual radio amateurs for experimental and scientific purposes related to amateur radio
…"
To answer the questions in the topic and in the first post, it is my understanding that it is legal to sell radio equipment without a CE mark that:
• was placed on the EU market before the regulations came in to force, or
• is used by radio amateurs as defined in the regulation.

Of course, I could be wrong because I do not find it any easier to understand or summarise a 52 page regulation than anyone else.

David
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 6:46 pm   #6
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

Thanks for that David.

We are getting close to discussing EU policy and procedures. I would ask members not to pursue that in view of the ongoing Brexit process. We don't want political arguments here.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 7:04 pm   #7
HamishBoxer
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

I sold my Trio transceiver plus other bits a year or so back on Ebay and no problems.

Yes I have seen homebrew gear sold.

Just had a quick look and no KW up for sale, although searching for KW2000 I found a load of 2kW heaters!

NOTE this Not a complaint or discussion, merely an observation on my part.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 10:23 pm   #8
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

The amateur radio licence permits the holder to not just operate transmitters but to also design/build/modify them as well and to then put them on the air on their own responsibility.

No other service gets these freedoms. So essentially, the operator is type approved and therefore the equipment does not need to be. It's not like a driving licence for a car, it's a licence to design, make and MOT your own car.

There are exams needed for aviation and marine radio tickets, but these are based on operation protocols rather than getting down and dirty with the hardware. So type approved equipment only is allowed.

Consumer stuff with transmitters in it is type approved and usually limited to quite low power, to limit the mischief which can be caused with it.

David
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 10:34 pm   #9
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Default Re: Selling Non-CE marked transmitters, is it legal to sell?

I'm not a lawyer, either, but this in a way reminds me of the situation with CB Radio about 38 years ago now. IIRC It was legal to import, buy and sell non-compliant CB Transceivers, usually American spec. AM ones, but illegal to actually use them (people did, of course)
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