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Old 6th Feb 2023, 7:09 pm   #21
dglcomp
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

My gran probably had a couple of electricians in the 90's/00's to add a couple of sockets for her and of course the person who originally did her garage sockets, none of them ever were compliant and it's only through the work I have done that it's now safer.
Part of that is down to the house being wired as a ring upstairs and spurs from there to each socket downstairs, therefore no socket in the living or dining room can have another one attached to it but they were. Now it's not like it was something that could be easily missed as each socket only had one wire going in to it!

Now I am not a professional electrician, nor have I passed any tests/got any certification to do the work but I made it safe and to me that's more important than leaving it alone.

I have also seen items with the same type of plug as the OP and I would assume it is fine as in reality the chance of the average reusing the plug is close to 0 and most people who would reuse it would know it was for unearthed appliances only.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 8:14 pm   #22
Lucien Nunes
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

The problem in this case is not so much that the plug might be inappropriately re-used, but that the very fact that it exists indicates that the company that supplied it falsely claim compliance with standards they conspicuously do not comply with. The same might be true of the appliance, where more serious dangers might lurk.

How about the fuse? If it has an ASTA mark, do you believe it? Wire trapped under the endcap? End surface not 'substantially flat?' How do you know it contains silica? I bet it's a fake. Subject it to a 6kA short-circuit test and see if it explodes.

When we find an IEC cordset with bogus approvals, sometimes the plug will be dimensionally inaccurate, the cable conductors undersize, the insulation too thin and/or the polarity reversed. Or some such litany of failures that follow from a blatant disregard for correct practice.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 8:14 pm   #23
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

It looks fine in other respects though and even has a fuse from a decent company.

If itís from Argos, I would be surprised if it's unsafe, though I take Lucienís point about the ISOD in a rewirable plug being dodgy.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 8:28 pm   #24
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathovisor View Post
Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?
In signing off he signs to say he designed and installed the installation so he canít.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 8:40 pm   #25
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathovisor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment. And yes, I realise that that's not the case.
I disagree strongly, having seen the standard of wiring perpetrated in my house by someone "qualified". Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?

And as for self-certifying.... don't make me laugh. The trade equivalent of marking your own homework.
Ooh dear? Hmm, regarding what I said, exactly what are you disagreeing strongly with? If you have had a job done and are not satisfied with it, then you must complain to that person's boss and/or the trade organisation for which he represents. And I never even mentioned self certifying though it appears as if I did.
I had no redress at this point as the person who had arranged the work and I fell out over it, after she spent £20k of my money and besides which, why would I want those monkeys back in my house? I still have a non-continuous earth in the kitchen ring, only discovered when an earth fell off in a crammed FCU and I started getting tingles off kitchen appliances. I can - and do - much better work than that, so I did and I will continue to do so. I did most of the electrics here in 1986 and it hasn't caused any problems.

Where I disagree with you is that "only qualified people should work on electrics". NO. Only competent people should work on electrics - it's perfectly possible to be qualified AND be incompetent.

Last edited by Cathovisor; 6th Feb 2023 at 8:46 pm.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 9:49 pm   #26
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

Quote:
Originally Posted by winston_1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathovisor View Post
Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?
In signing off he signs to say he designed and installed the installation so he canít.
apart from wishwashy part P self cert forms, there are provision for three signature forms (industrial/commercial usually) 1st signature for the designer, 2nd signature for the installer and 3rd for the test and inspection person.

It is not precluded for the same person to sign two, or even all three signatures
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 9:26 am   #27
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

I have one of them plugs on a fan and it works fine.
Got another lead with a moulded sleeved earth pin, seems to work and makes an earth connection, obviously it's not compliant but the power supply it's attached to is plastic.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 10:46 am   #28
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trifocaltrev View Post
The appliance was bought from Argos recently!

Trevor.
Regardless of where it was purchased, I bet I can guess where it was made.

If I'm right then the country in question has long had a very tenuous relationship with electrical safety!
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 11:04 am   #29
its ur aerial
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

Sleeved earth pins do also not comply with BS1363A.
As for BS1362 fuses, there was quite a few fake ones about a year or two ago, I personally had one explode, it was one from a packet bought from a well known high st discount store and had all the relevant correct markings.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 11:10 am   #30
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

Quote:
Originally Posted by its ur aerial View Post
Sleeved earth pins do also not comply with BS1363A.
As for BS1362 fuses, there was quite a few fake ones about a year or two ago, I personally had one explode, it was one from a packet bought from a well known high st discount store and had all the relevant correct markings.
Ken.
So, if sleeved earth pins do not comply with British safety standards, who is (supposedly) doing 'what' about it? The amount of dangerous electrical stuff coming in from you know where has been happening for years, and still it comes! I mean, in this example, the item came from Argos, not a market stall in a run down area? Why aren't all those involved being taken to book? Do we not care? Is the tide too large to ward off?
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 12:56 pm   #31
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

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Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Do we not care? Is the tide too large to ward off?
I think the truth lies somewhere between these two statements, sadly.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 1:11 pm   #32
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

An unfortunate consequence of the poltical philosophy of deregulation, which seemingly forgets or ignores the reasons why the regulations were introduced in the first place.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 2:46 pm   #33
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

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An unfortunate consequence of the poltical philosophy of deregulation, which seemingly forgets or ignores the reasons why the regulations were introduced in the first place.
Yes, we seem to strongly regulate what we make here in Britain (adding considerable costs to the production process) yet quite happy to turn a blind eye to dangerous products being brought in that are often manufactured in very poor or non-existent H&S circumstances, great endangering workers, and allowing those companies to cut corners, save money and sell cheap all around the world. The list of what we are doing to shoot ourselves in the foot and simultaneously promulgate danger to foreign workers couldn't be much longer if we tried.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 3:33 pm   #34
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Default Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin

This thread has gone past the point of no return.

Some experienced opinions on compliance have been raised.

This forum is not the place to go on a crusade about the standards of imported goods that's better done on a consumer rights website.

Cheers

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