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Old 4th Apr 2018, 4:46 pm   #41
space_charged
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

I can still hear 10Khz of a 405 line TV line output stage, but no longer hear the 15.625KHz of a 625 lines TV. Used to be able to hear the stereo pilot tone 19Khz, a long time ago. I'm 63 now.
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Old 5th Apr 2018, 9:09 am   #42
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

I use to be able to hear the 625 line whistle from most TV's in my teenage years as well as Bats. Now I am 57 I can no longer hear the 625 line whistle or the bats. I can hear the 405 line whistle from my BRC 980 as well as the 9Khz whistle from an AM radio when the station you are tuned to is suffering from adjacent channel interference giving the 9Khz whistle.

My 19 year old son still has very good hearing at the higher frequencies and gets annoyed with some in car mobile phone chargers that he says emits a loud annoying whistle which I can not hear. I cannot run my BRC 980 single standard 405 line set when he is at home because he cannot stand the loud 10kHz line whistle which he can hear right around the house.
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Old 5th Apr 2018, 9:24 am   #43
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

I've heard teenagers complaining about the 405-line whistle in the reception at work.
They are usually the ones with the loudest twist-and-go scooters!
I wonder how many of their predecessors didn't watch 'Ready Steady Go!' because they 'couldn't stand' the line whistle?
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Old 5th Apr 2018, 11:50 am   #44
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

I discovered a couple of years ago at a BVWS garden party that I could no longer hear 10.125 kHz from 405 TVs. Back home I tested myself with a test tone CD and found I could just hear 10 kHz so the cut off point must have been pretty close. In my teens I could just about hear 625 line whistle but not enough to bother me. I'm 73 now.
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Old 6th Apr 2018, 8:42 am   #45
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

Line whistle never 'bothered' me at the time. As a kid, it was part of the experience of television, along with the strange bluish glow and the distinctive warm smell.
Television for today's youngsters must be clinical in comparison.
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Old 6th Apr 2018, 10:16 am   #46
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

...and not nearly so interesting.

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Old 11th Apr 2018, 2:28 pm   #47
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

In my childhood and teens I could tell if there was a 625 line TV on anywhere in a house, the whistle was very clearly audible to me. With valve powered sets it was interesting as they'd start silent and the whistle would get louder.

I've never encountered a 405 line set but I strongly suspect they would have really annoyed me.

I'm 45 and can still hear up to 21kHz (according to a recent test. Was over 30k as a child) and differentiate a 1Hz difference in tones up to 8kHz. I just did a simple test with a tone generator and can certainly hear the 15kHz tone. I still hear the 19kHz pilot tone on FM broadcasts but not as loud as I once did.

when I was first tested as a child the person doing the test did not believe me, so I had to repeat the high frequency tests several times with consistent results until he eventually admitted I could likely hear beyond the 30kHz limit of his apparatus.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 5:34 pm   #48
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulliver View Post
when I was first tested as a child the person doing the test did not believe me, so I had to repeat the high frequency tests several times with consistent results until he eventually admitted I could likely hear beyond the 30kHz limit of his apparatus.
That's an early memory for me too, at infant's school, age five. They put headphones on me and gave me a hammer or mallet with which I was to bang the table when I heard a sound.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 10:11 pm   #49
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

For my test aged seven, I was simply asked to say "yes" when i could hear a tone and then to say whether it was higher or lower than the previous tone. It seemed to go on for hours but I know I experienced time differently as a child....I wouldn't be surprised if it was under an hour.

What I find most interesting is my ability to distinguish a difference as little as 1Hz. I am told that puts me in the top 0.1% and may well have much to do with how picky I am with audio components.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 9:45 am   #50
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

When I was working on 405 sets exclusively in the '50s I could often hear if the set was on when I reached the doorstep, I could also adjust the line hold with no aerial in, plug it in and the picture would be locked. Doubt if I could repeat it now though, I don't know what my pitch accuracy was or whether that sound was just burned into my brain.

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Old 12th Apr 2018, 9:57 am   #51
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

Gulliver - that must be distressing.

The limit of frequency discrimination (for a single, slowly frequency-modulated tone - two tones together is a different kind of problem) is proportional to the absolute frequency of the stimulus in normally-hearing subjects, and is at its best at about 9 or 10 Hz around 2kHz - about 0.5% resolution. It gets a bit broader (as a %) up to about 5kHz, after which it falls apart rapidly, and at low frequency (below 1kHz) it gets much worse too, up to about 3% resolution at 100 Hz - one reason it's easier to tune a bass guitar by ear using harmonics. So a normally-hearing 18-25 yr old would report a 3Hz resolution at 100 Hz and a 30Hz resolution at 5kHz.

Standard audiometry only goes up to 8kHz because fit reproducibility of headphones gets really poor above this, and results are therefore largely meaningless. I was involved in various trials to do something about this, all of which were inconclusive! I thought my hearing was great (measured in a booth on a normal audiometer, it is) but during these trials it became clear my hearing drops off alarmingly (although not completely-reproducibly-alarmingly ) above 12k. That was a few years ago - it will be worse now.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 10:21 am   #52
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

With regard to the perception of pitch, a complicating factor can be that both ears don't agree on the pitch heard at a particular frequency.

The two sides may also not track perfectly when the frequency is swept. For example, if a tone is below a certain frequency, it will sound slightly lower on the left side and if above that frequency, it will sound lower on the right. The effect is normally slight.

My own two hearing channels cross over (only agree on pitch) at 5.5 KHz.

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Old 13th Apr 2018, 11:11 am   #53
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

I think a normal function of hearing loss is that the frequencies response of each ear will change differently. If I am on the phone and the signal is poor I can understand speech better with my right ear than I can with my left although with most other things they are about the same.

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Old 13th Apr 2018, 12:27 pm   #54
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Default Re: Can you (still) hear line whistle?

Normally both ears hear the same pitch....but sometimes when I get a cold my left year will hear about half a tone higher than the right. This can also happen briefly when I yawn. Probably down to my left eustachian tube not always clearing.

Wow and flutter is not fun. I was listening to some Duke Ellington recorded in 1946 last night and enjoyed the music but the original recording had what I consider to be significant speed fluctuations.
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