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6th Jan 2016, 2:17 am | #41 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
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It's very satisfying when you've led someone to the point where they suddenly realise that it's a lot more simple than the thought it was. unquote!! ALL you have done, David, is give them the right page to read!! If someone is genuinely interested they will go and read "the text" or at least do some research, into their own understanding of the subject!! Teaching is easy if the student is "applied"!!. Several posts here have mentioned that " the enquirer should present some voltages they have measured, OR send a picture, OR post a circus diagram, sorry circuit diagram. IF the enquirer can go this far, they really do have an interest in repairing, or understanding the "equipment" , if after securing a repair, and they dont thank anybody I send you this quandary!!. For the last 30 years, the bank has been demanding answers in regard to your mortgage!! DID they EVER once thank you for the four times value of your property interest payments?? EVEN once ?? And we pay for that. The majority stay here, even if lurking, and a few even become talented techs! That in itself is good. Joe |
4th Apr 2016, 9:23 pm | #42 | |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
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4th Apr 2016, 9:53 pm | #43 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
Sorry to hear that you're having problems. But don't give up! Persevere, and you'll get there. We were all new to this hobby once.
I genuinely do not feel that any of the negative views expressed in this thread are aimed at people like you. I've noticed that you requested that one of your Grundig radio threads be closed or deleted. This seems a shame after going so far. Sometimes, advice isn't forthcoming simply because we don't know what to do next, not least because it's often impossible to help without being sat in front of the faulty set. Be patient. Sometimes, the magic reply comes in days, weeks or even months after a question was initially asked. Or sometimes the answer comes by itself, once you've had a few days away from the set to mull things over. Quote:
Nick Last edited by Nickthedentist; 4th Apr 2016 at 10:02 pm. |
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4th Apr 2016, 10:30 pm | #44 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
The advice comes from people in their spare time, and sometimes they have to go off to do other things, so replies will inevitably be a bit erratic. Some people drop out as others drop in and then the first lot come back... It's jolly lucky we all seem to agree on everything ;-)
But you are certainly not in the sights for the criticism that's been bandied about on this thread... you aren't one of the peole who post once and vanish without trace... You're still here! It makes a big difference to find out whether a bit of help really did the job. Some feedback helps people refine their techniques of giving help. And helps them feel that it's all worthwhile. David
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4th Apr 2016, 10:51 pm | #45 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
Problem ( possibly well known to those of us who've been employed professionally to rectify problems) is that, as an old mate of mine said many tears ago, that in fault-finding,grass hopping is a virtue. But I've always found the divide by two principle works best, and in theory it should be possible to get to a fault in 8.
Example- cable of 2 miles length, with 100 yard test points. Test 1 shows cable has one /more of a pair open circuit. next test is done at 1 mile, and dependant on result, tester goes forward or back 1/2 mile. Next test gets fault to within 1/4 mile etc. That's on a circuit where the frequency is constant, such as an amp or record player. On radio, you have to work out the frequency expected. e.g. MW radio with 470 IF, it's simply look for any injected tone etc. Not much, perhaps with a problem. but ,that's the basics of fault finding. The other basic, is work out how the circuit should work. Then work out what it's not doing, and then find out where it's not doing what it should. That is where knowing the theory of how it works comes in. |
4th Apr 2016, 11:40 pm | #46 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
It's called the 'successive approximation' algorithm and is found in some analogue-to-digital converters.
There is a slightly smarter varsion where, instead of putting your first test right in the middle of the length of whatever is being diagnosed, you pick a point where th probability of the fault being before the test point, and the probability of it being after the test point are about equal. This gives you s slightly better chance of doing the deed in even fewer tries. It comes out of information theory and the difference between Fano and Huffmann coding schemes. Morse code plays a related game by having the shortest codes assigned to the most probable letters. If you're going to play dice, why not make sure they're weighted favourably first! It's amazing how things seem interlinked. David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
5th Apr 2016, 7:16 pm | #47 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
I sometimes wonder if new members don't understand how internet forums work. I seem to remember the odd occasion where a poster has started a new thread because they can't find the previous one they started…
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5th Apr 2016, 7:45 pm | #48 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
That happens very frequently here. If the mods spot it they merge the threads.
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Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron. |
6th Apr 2016, 4:51 pm | #49 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
I think you've got hold of the wrong end of the "stick" here poppy dog. Read a few more threads and you will see that some op's don't listen/don't understand or expect a completely personal tuition service with no apparent understanding of the relentless nature of the process and it's effect on others. That's not the same as getting help as a novice but it's hard to define exactly why I suppose, basically, it's about being appropriate socially and certainly nothing to do with any "clique" or two tier system which has never been an aspect of this supportive group. Overall it can been seen as part of a general decline in good manners and the current retro craze doesn't help either .As Nick says, anyone who has enough insight to ask do you mean me? is unlikely to be a suspect. Hang on in there
Dave W |
7th Apr 2016, 10:34 pm | #50 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
Never heard it called that before. However, since you're in Fife, I remember [sarcastic mode]working up there in a Radio factory, where one team leader used to do a lap of honour if he found a fault. [/sarcastic mode]
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12th Apr 2016, 7:50 am | #51 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
poppydog, - been a member of this forum for 5 years ish, started as a complete novice with very little knowledge. A loytof what I've learnt in the subsequent years has been learnt on this forum and others. Some questions I've asked havn't been answered, but members are only human so lose interest, misunderstand or whatever. If your keen to learn, this forum is only one source of info, you have to work at it, which is difficult sometimes and can be frustrating.
I havn't seen or experienced any overt clickyness or felt pushed out, far from it, never had so much help and advice given before. Stick with us, it's worth it. Andy.
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12th Apr 2016, 8:44 am | #52 |
Heptode
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
As a relative newbie, I haven't seen any of this reported behaviour. Clearly there are experts on here that are anxious to help when they can. However, sometimes it can be impossible to diagnose a problem at a distance, particularly when the fault report is not comprehensive. As someone else says, sometimes there is nobody who is expert on that particular device and others are loath to provide guesswork, which can be frustrating for the owner.
In general, I think the forum is a superb place to be for those interested in electronics and I have no complaints except for excessively strict moderation (in my opinion of course). |
12th Apr 2016, 8:48 am | #53 | |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
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If it's any consolation, the moderation style is constantly evolving, and for the better IMHO Nick. |
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12th Apr 2016, 11:47 am | #54 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
Moderation policy is not open to general discussion for obvious reasons.
Like Beauty, Moderation is in the eye of the beholder. We aim to have a lasting "Archive" of knowledge that is relevant to our shared interest in Vintage Electronics. Everything else is peripheral or irrelevant. The "place for everything, and everything in it's place" strategy is an essential component in preventing threads drifting into forests of random information, which they inevitably do if unchecked. For all other subjects (and we all have other interests, including many shared ones) there are more relevant Forums, willing and eager to discuss anything else. Please get back on topic to prevent the inevitable closure of this informative thread. |
12th Apr 2016, 1:04 pm | #55 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
Apologies, Bill.
Poppydog, have we restored your faith in us a little? N. |
12th Apr 2016, 9:50 pm | #56 | |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
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It's interesting reading me as an example for the good this forum can do and I must say I totally agree. Were it not for the help and patience of forum members I would still be as clueless as I was when I joined up at the age of 13 and didn't know what a capacitor was. Sadly because of the cars, women and booze I haven't spent quite as much time as I would have liked learning more of the theory side over the past few years so I still post the odd silly question from time to time but people are still always willing to help. I must admit I have left threads hanging when I have ended up out of my depth with the suggestions being offered but the sets are still here and it is my intention to return to them when I understand their faults better. In my opinion it is all down to attitude really- some asking for help go about it the wrong way and may be expecting an instant quick fix, but likewise I have seen people responding to queries in a condescending manner. The problem is we are all people, and as always in life personalities will clash, some people will drift away but at the end of the day we all share a common interest and together have created this fantastic resource which has taught me nearly all I know when it comes to messing about with antiquated electronics. Passing on knowledge to the next generation is one of the most important duties we have in life and for me it is something this forum excels at. |
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12th Apr 2016, 10:47 pm | #57 |
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
Well said Josh. I sent you a McMichael set once! Your life has been refreshingly normal and you understand core values. I liked your balanced comment but I think the self centred approach now well exceedes any condesension! You weren't like that at all Sir!
Dave |
17th Apr 2016, 10:36 pm | #58 | ||
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Re: Lost in Translation??!!
I thought I had better respond to the replies from my previous post (otherwise it will be pot - kettle - black etc.) but I will keep it as brief as I can.
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I think I will leave it there for now as I'm not very diplomatic and I know I won't be able to hold my tongue (I don't want to get banned just yet!). Thanks for the replies and kind words. Regards Poppydog |
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