Old cine film and magnetic tape parallels

[Valvepower]

Hello,

Firstly, I hope this is not too far off topic, but I feel cine film is now vintage, plus the projector has a bulb, belts and a motor – but if it is and it’s removed, I’ll fully understand.

With the sad passing of both my parents the second half of last year I now have the onerous task of clearing out their house where they lived for 40 years

Whilst going through a cupboard I came upon seven super 8 cine films and a Plus-O-Matic 202 projector. The projector powers up, but the main belt has seen better days and keeps coming off.

The question is: Much like with magnetic tape – I figure after 41 years of storage the film will have become fragile and even if I got the projector going, would I be foolish viewing a 41-year-old film on a similar aged projector and would be recipe for disaster?

These are the only films I have, and I’d have to use one of these to restore the projector and I suppose the scope for ruining this film is rather high!

After a bit of searching on the internet I have found quite a few companies offering 8mm cine film to digital format conversion. I’m wondering if this could be a better option than restoring the old projector?

I could find/borrow a restored projector and use that, but there is still the fragility of the film to consider.

I think one of these films is of my first band with a 17 year old me on bass doing a gig on Silver Jubilee Day 1977 and it would be nice to see this again

Regards
Terry

[barrymagrec]

Film from 41 years ago was all on safety stock and unless it has been particularly badly stored it should not have deteriorated to any serous extent.

It depends how often you intend to view it but an 8mm projector should be reasonably easy to repair and keep running for occasional use.

If you digitise it you will have the continuing problem of ever changing formats with the need to keep the digital copy in an up to date viewable form.

If the film is stored under reasonably stable conditions it will probably outlast you....

[electronicskip]

Personally I would get one of the specialist conversion companies to transfer them professionally to DVD or some other format.
I recently had some reels of 16mm colour from 1956/57 and 59 transferred to DVD without any drama but its not a cheap option depending on how much film there is to transfer.

[boxdoctor]

If you have digital copies made (DVD), as Electronicskip suggests, then you may wish to restore the projector and show the films on it, knowing that you have back-up copies (on the DVD) in the event of anything drastic happening whilst viewing them on the projector.
Also you will be able to have a quick view anytime on a DVD player if you don't happen to feel like setting the projector up. Tony

[TonyDuell]

The film will be safety film, that is certain. I read in one of my books of substandard cinematography ('substandard' here means film narrower than 35mm) that one of the reasons the 16mm film width was chosen was that it couldn't be efficiently sliced down from 35mm stock. It was regarded (even then) as a bad idea for amateurs to be using highly flammable film.

If you do have it transfered to DVDs then _keep the film as well_. The film is likely to have a longer life than a DVD (at least a recordable DVD), it will proably degrade gracefully (it will fade, perhaps, but it won't suddenly become unwatchable) and the equipment to view it is likely to have a longer life and be easier to repair than a DVD player.

[Grubhead]

Since there is no real demand for film projectors, second hand projectors on E-Bay seemed cheap to me when I looked at the about a week ago. Quite surprising as I think for many things it's quite expensive.
So if you wanted to you could do both options, send the film to be converted and get a projector for old time sake.

[emeritus]

I believe that, if stored correctly, Kodachrome should be good for about 180 years before the dyes deteriorate significantly. Other types of film, such as Ektachrome and Agfacolor, use a different chemistry for their dyes and will not last as long.

I have been transferring some of my late uncle's 1970's 8mm films to digital and the original films project OK. The only problem has been jumping and change of framing at some of his poorly-made tape splices, fixed by remaking them properly. I have had more problems with the camcorders that I have been using for digital capture, apparently due to the unreliable electrolytic capacitors and humidity sensors used in 1990's JVC DV camcorders.

[Hartley118]

I have a large number of cine films from the 1970s, taken when the children were growing up. They're mostly Fujichrome Single 8, but also Kodachrome Super 8. The only problem I've ever had projecting them has been, as Emeritus mentions, the odd dried out splice. I also have quite a few 16mm films from even earlier eras. All are on 'safety stock' and still project well. Incidentally, old splices are also the only problem I encounter when playing old audio tapes. At least film projectors don't have as fast a wind speed of a tape deck, which can result in a catastrophic tape tangle if a splice unexpectedly gives way!

I'd be inclined, before sending the film for expensive digitising, to get your projector working with a suitable belt and check that each film projects OK. That should save any to-ing and fro-ing with the digitising company.

In my experience, resurrecting a film projector is not unlike working on an auto record changer: dried up grease can be a problem, but can usually be softened by carefully applying oil, followed by cleaning and fresh grease. Dismantling of the mechanism fortunately can usually be avoided. As you've found, belt replacement may be required, though some projectors used robust chain or spiral wire belts which last for ever.

Best of luck in what I hope will be a nostalgic and enjoyable project.

Martin

[G6Tanuki]

I'd suggest getting them professionally-digitized, but with the output being on a USB-stick or something rather than a DVD.

'burned' DVD-R discs are somewhat frangible; if you've got the files on something convenient like a USB-stick you can then easily send copies [via Dropbox etc] to a range of relatives and ask them to download/store them locally in whatever format they prefer.

The secret to securing data is to have loads of copies of it in different physical locations and on different kinds of media. Bandwidth's cheap - some of the digitized 8mm movies from my childhood are replicated with relatives in Australia, others in Canada, and there are copies on Apple's and Microsoft's digital-storage too.

[hamid_1]

Once you have the film transferred to DVD, it's easy to make more copies or convert it to other digital formats. You can simply drag and drop the files from the DVD-R to a USB stick or hard drive, etc. (Not so easy to copy commercial shop-bought / rented DVD movies - they have copy protection. Your own home movies won't have any.)

I'd say that recordable / rewritable DVDs are good for medium-term storage. I have some 15 year old DVD+RW and DVD-R discs that are still playable. I'm not sure about USB sticks lasting that long. Still, I think it would be a good idea to make a fresh copy of a recordable DVD after, say 10 years, as well as keeping a copy on another medium like USB. Giving copies to family members is another good idea, in case one person loses their copy, there's another chance to recover it.

Ultimately, I suspect the original cine film may outlast the current digital formats.

[suebutcher]

Most 8mm film had an acetate base. After several decades that can deteriorate if it's not stored properly, and it may become brittle. The safest way of seeing old 8mm is with a hand cranked viewer, they put very little strain on the film base, and they won't tear the sprockets or burn holes through the image as a old projector might.

[rontech]

I have been associated with a local amateur cine / video group since 1960 ( Such groups are a dying breed these days though ). However if there is a simliar group in your own area you may may find they have members with a lot of experience dating back to 16, 9.5 and 8 mm formats. If so it could be worth making contact.

[McMurdo]

The only problem I've had with super 8 is if a splice has become either weak or was incorrectly made in the first place, for super-8 this is normally using clear tape (because cement splices on super-8 have to be done in frame and thus visible, and undesirable, as well as impossible on certain types of stock). A bad splice can jam in the gate and cause a meltdown, so if you've not projected a reel in a long time it might be worth keeping your hand on the controls ready to turn the lamp off.

I've considered converting all our family film to digital this christmas, but as usual, time is running out and real work beckons!

[emeritus]

AFAIR about the only time you are likely to come across film that cannot be spliced using film cement is the Fujichrome that was used in Fuji cameras that used a different type of charger (single 8?) from the more usual Kodak Instamatic . I think it was a type of Mylar that was much thinner than ordinary acetate, and allowed the Fuji charger to be smaller than Kodak's. I think some Dixon's own brand Super 8 used Mylar as well.
I had invested in a motorised splicer by Haenel that uses precision grinding wheels to trim the ends for almost invisible and virtually inaudible frame line splices for both standard and super 8. I guess it counts as vintage technology still in (occasional) use!

[Valvepower]

Hello all,

Firstly, thanks to everyone who too the time to reply, it's really appreciated.

I’ll take the two routes of getting the film copied over to a digital format and to also restore the projector, so I can see them as they were meant to be seen back in the day.

They are Super8 Kodachrome and been stored in a dry cupboard/wardrobe in my late parents’ bedroom. I did find an unused film with an expiry date of October 1978 so, this roughly dates the film.

I’ll do the digital copy for my Sons, so they can see their ‘ole Dad strut his ‘Rock ‘n’ Roll’ stuff back in the 70’s – or as they said have a good chortle at Dads expense

Regards
Terry

[ben]

Here's what I usually advise people to do when they find a reel to reel tape machine and a pile of family tapes: Get hold of a 'sacrificial' film first (off ebay for example) before risking precious ones on a projector of unknown functionality.