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Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl RetroTechUK), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC, BECG, MCR21 etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations. |
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27th Jun 2018, 9:00 am | #41 |
Hexode
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oswestry, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 408
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Putting aside for a moment the wider ethical questions re. traders, I'd like to address the economics. There seems to be a notion abroad that rascally traders will somehow outbid hard-done-by collectors (assuming for a moment the Venn diagram of these doesn't intersect). This is surely nonsense. Traders, by definition, sell on, so it's more likely that their price limit is lower than that of many collectors, to provide for a margin. Anything's only worth what people are prepared to pay for it. And, of course, fashions change, driving prices both up and down.
Regards, Richard |
27th Jun 2018, 11:31 am | #42 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeen, UK.
Posts: 2,840
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
The contentious saga of the rights & wrongs of traders at BVWS Swapmeets etc. could bang on for ages. But I certainly welcomed the Bulletin statement. I realise that I've banged on about traders several times in the past. But not without reason, having suffered at the hands of a recently banned fellow. However, I realise that there are some jolly decent traders with a keen interest in vintage radio pursuits. Long may they continue. One trader I've held in high regard for many years is Gerry Horrox - a really nice guy.
eBay - well its an online auction site, used internationally. I do use it occasionally for buying & selling. As do quite a few Forum & BVWS folk. To folk in more remote regions of the UK, it's fine for those who can't easily get to RWB or NVCF, or wherever. And it reaches out to a huge amount of prospective buyers and sellers. However, its not eBay's fault if some sellers pretend to be vintage radio enthusiasts, but are just internet wheeler-dealers. Caveat Emptor springs to mind. Regards, David |
27th Jun 2018, 4:20 pm | #43 | |
Octode
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Oxfordshire/Bucks borders, UK.
Posts: 1,604
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Quote:
If someone wants to sell it and someone wants to buy it, surely the 'trader' can only sell it onto another enthusiast. I personally don't see the problem with this as it can bring certain items into the reach of those who are unaware of the BVWS meet or can't attend to one.
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Avometer, vintage Fluke and Marconi collector. Also interested in vintage Yaesu and KW. |
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27th Jun 2018, 6:46 pm | #44 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,736
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
I've been following this debate with some interest.
Looking at it from a slightly different and personal angle, I prefer to keep 'competition' out of all my hobbies. Life is competitive enough without introducing competition into our leisure pursuits, in my opinion. However, I am clearly out of kilter with the millions of people who happily pursue competitive interests, be it sport (in which I have no interest whatsoever), cookery contests, amateur radio contests and the whole raft of other activities which humans tend to make into competitive pastimes. My problem with competitions is that, by definition, there can only be one 'winner'. This means that all the other participants are deemed to be 'losers' and are hence left disappointed. For every delighted winner, there are a great many disappointed losers. People who class themselves as 'collectors' face the dilemma of being left as losers in the bidding war for desirable items. To be a winner, you need a deep pocket. Dealers exploit this and are clever enough to recognise and snap up (at the dealer's own risk) those items which other people will desire and pay a premium to own. Private enterprise has been ever thus. The trick (in my personal opinion) is to restrict your interest to repair and restoration, and limit yourself to collecting either whatever happens to come along cheaply, or items that no-one else sees as desirable or collectable! Things go in and out of fashion over time, which does cause prices to rise and fall.
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Phil Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts |
27th Jun 2018, 7:04 pm | #45 |
Hexode
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oswestry, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 408
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Am intrigued by the notion that collectors who don't win items at auction, by virtue of being outbid, are somehow losers. My understanding of an auction is that interested parties bid in an effort to win the item, with only one person ultimately doing so.
A solution to avoid any angst amongst those who are not successful might be to end all auctions. Instead we could build a UK inventory of vintage radios and associated spares and test equipment, and take turns to have a particular item in our living rooms / workshops. Regards, Richard |
27th Jun 2018, 7:05 pm | #46 | ||
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,063
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Quote:
Selling on eBay will reach a bigger market, and generally result in a better price, for somewhat more effort. A member faced with disposing of an item can easily advertise himself on eBay, so why does he bother with the BVWS auction? Probably because he'd like it to go to another member, at a more affordable price! I'm a massive fan of eBay, I've picked up several highly desirable items, and I've disposed of several, too (as I live miles away from even the nearest BVWS venue). They have gone to (probably) enthusiasts, but I'll never know. But it's purely commercial, whereas BVWS auctions are run in a friendlier spirit, less money-making, and more trying to help each other as members. |
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27th Jun 2018, 8:04 pm | #47 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Oxfordshire/Bucks borders, UK.
Posts: 1,604
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
And the BVWS member does benefit, by selling something he or she wants to sell. I know there are some people who don't want the hassle of selling on ebay themselves, they'd rather someone just take it there and then.
I get your point of course.
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Avometer, vintage Fluke and Marconi collector. Also interested in vintage Yaesu and KW. |
27th Jun 2018, 10:04 pm | #48 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,736
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Quote:
No, you're missing the point. There's nothing wrong with auctions per se. If you don't like "not winning", just don't participate in the auction! Otherwise, don't complain when others - dealers included - are willing to pay more than you, so they "win".
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Phil Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts |
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28th Jun 2018, 5:16 am | #49 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oswestry, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 408
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Quote:
Regards, Richard Last edited by YoungManGW; 28th Jun 2018 at 5:25 am. |
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28th Jun 2018, 8:06 am | #50 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,736
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
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Phil Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts |
28th Jun 2018, 10:36 am | #51 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,739
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
In actual fact, because the auctions aren't simultaneously live on internet, the prices attained will almost certainly be lower than would otherwise be the case because it's limited to those in the room who wish to bid, which won't be everyone.
I've only been to three auctions, on of which was a BVWS event, and didn't bid at any of them. The one thing I would say - which without a doubt is where the commercial bidders hold sway - is in the valve lots. Most lots consist of far more valves than the average restorer could cope with or would wish to bid for, and at the events I attended, it was clear that the bidding was between the same two bidders whose intentions can only have been commercial. But what's the alternative? Break one lot of fifty valves into five lots of ten, so that hobbyist restorers have a better chance of bidding? Not helpful to the seller, and even more work for the hard-pressed auctioneer. If I have any radios to sell - which isn't often - I've long since abandoned ebay. I enter then into a local auctioneers under 'collectibles'. They're listed live on internet as well as in the room. No hassle of getting the description right, no need to post and pack, no bother about damage in transit from the auction to the buyer - just a cheque through the post, and in the five instances that I've listed items, a handsome cheque at that. I'm always amused by the term 'winning' an auction. The reality is that the person who 'wins' has paid the highest price that anyone was prepared to pay for that item on that day at that venue.
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David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
28th Jun 2018, 1:14 pm | #52 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,897
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
The only problem with selling at an antiques or house clearance auction are the deductions. They usually charge a listing fee then commission on the hammer price and if the set has a plug on it they will also charge for a pat test even if the radio is sold as not working.
My mate entered a couple of radios and a radiogram in a local auction. They made fair money for what they were but by the time the deductions had been taken he ended up with just over half the hammer price I think. I think rare and valuable stuff pretty much makes it's money at the BVWS auctions, pre war TV sets, crystal sets and Decca radiograms spring to mind that points to collectors being there and being prepared to pay for what they want. More Common stuff like TR82s Dac90a s and tatty 1950s woodies maybe don't go for much because most people with a collection have enough already I know I have... That said I enjoy buying the odd unloved set cheap and bringing it back to life I bought a Bakelite GEC from the last Harpenden bring and buy for £4 and really enjoyed refurbing it. Once it was finished it was cheap enough for me to give it away to a mate who wanted an old radio for his shed/den. He wouldn't have got it if it had been an expensive or rare set. So there is a market I suppose for everything. I want to go to Wooton B there is one thing I fancy in the auction.. I don't really have the room... I don't really need it and it's my other half's birthday on that Sunday so the odds are against me... Rich. Last edited by slidertogrid; 28th Jun 2018 at 1:22 pm. |
28th Jun 2018, 3:08 pm | #53 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,814
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
My magazine copy was waiting in tropical Ramsbottom as eagerly awaited [post 2*]. The usual excellent high quality [in every sense] edition. I was able to check out Greg's editorial statement which I think he would have been obliged to make regardless. As most people suggest, nothing is quite that clear cut in real life and it can all be endlessly debated until your ears start to bleed. Nobody can really take a purist position but the defining point is probaly when things are so blatant it's just taking someone taking the p***!
My concern has usually been when members get too exercised about refusing non-members access to events. In practise it almost never happens! We can tell from enquiries that some potential members are often quite nervous about that. To my knowledge, at least one and possibly two people have joined the BVWS after being encouraged to turn up for a look! Unless something is obviously wrong, I think it's better to be relaxed. I wasn't so sure about the letter which compiled parts of a thread on here that I'd seen but it was very well done and of course, not everyone in the BVWS will visit here as well Dave Last edited by dave walsh; 28th Jun 2018 at 3:16 pm. |
28th Jun 2018, 5:04 pm | #54 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,510
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
I much prefer a paper envelope to a plastic bag.
Aside from any ecological considerations, as a subscriber to all sorts of magazines over the years I have found that paper generally offers better protection against bashed corners, something that a close-fitting plastic bag doesn't protect against in my experience. Andy |
28th Jun 2018, 8:22 pm | #55 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,063
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
I prefer a plastic wrapper. I cut it carefully along one end to open it. I then save the wrapper to put my sandwiches in for work... which I eat while visiting this Forum!
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29th Jun 2018, 7:49 am | #56 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gosport, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 597
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
Quote:
John
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GQRP Club 4704 - BVWS Member |
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29th Jun 2018, 8:10 am | #57 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
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Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin
There is not an easy answer but a polite request and a tip at Christmas can some times help.
Pretty lucky here as the post folk are very good,where as in Scotland the person used to hold the mail out in front of him down the drive when it was teaming down.
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G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S |