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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 3:45 pm   #1
GrimJosef
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Default Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

I'm restoring a pair of vintage Leak amplifiers (TL/50 Plus) and I need some period resistors - high-stability Erie ceramics as shown in the attached picture. I've already found almost all the ones I need, but I'm looking now for the last few. I'm happy to pay the going rate plus postage and also to take any you might have - I don't need to buy them all from the same person.

These resistors come in at least three sizes. The most common ones (type 100, 108 and 109) are described in the last of Lucien's datasheets at post #12 here https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=69039. Actually it seems that the specs on them varied over time. They're described again here https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images...94906WW-ER.jpg in another Erie document with the same type numbers but different physical sizes, power ratings and safe working voltages !

Anyway I hope my picture is clear. I need two R108 size ones, value 180k, and twelve R109 size ones, two at 1k, four at 10k, two at 1M5 and four at 3M3. I fear that the 1M5 and 3M3 ones might be unobtainable since Lucien's sheet says that neither the R108s nor the R109s were made with values above 1M. But given the discrepancies between the sheets perhaps this wasn't always the case ?

I'm not picky about tolerances although it would be nice if all the ones of the same value matched. In general I do need rather long leads since all but the 1M5 and 3M3 ones have to run between quite widely spaced tags which I can't move. Obviously since I need high-stabs the resistors will need to have the 5th salmon-pink colour band which you can see in the picture.

I'll be really grateful if you can help me with this !

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 6:32 pm   #2
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

I got rid of the ones I had but may have the odd one or two, will have a look. The ones your after have a Salmon Pink bank on yes?

Andy.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 6:41 pm   #3
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

That's right Andy - the salmon pink band means that they are 'cracked carbon' (now known as carbon film) high-stability ones. So they will not have drifted in value. The ordinary carbon compositions, without the pink band, tend to drift high. The Leak circuit is rather tightly specified so the absolute value does matter. Furthermore the carbon comps are prone to going noisy with age. In the first stage of a 50W hi-fi amplifier noise is the last thing you want !

Cheers,

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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 8:34 pm   #4
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Hi GJ, I don't think I have any of those, but I do have quite a few of the black, brass ended panclimatic HS types (Welwyn I think). These were often fitted to this type of equipment., or are you after originality?

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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 11:20 pm   #5
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Yes Ed, I have a bag of the black ones, and pink ones too. It's hard to be sure what 'originality' really looks like with these amps. There are quite a few pics on the internet showing different resistor types in them, although as far as I can tell they were mostly carbon of one sort or the other. Unfortunately the amps I have have definitely been 'got at' with quite a few of the components having been replaced. At least some of the components in the internet pictures don't look original either. In the end I decided to see if I could at least make the resistors consistent and from the right time period. They also need to work properly, which 1950s/60s carbon comps no longer can. So that left either the high-stabs or something more unusual, like the Welwyns. I've never seen Welwyns used in Leak amps, but Erie high-stabs are pretty common in them. I have already managed to find most of the ones I need, including a couple of E12s (27k and 120k) and even the E24 91k hen's teeth ! Now I just need 1k and 10k which I'm hoping won't be so rare. If there are any 1M5 and 3M3 out there then they will be a bonus.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 8:12 am   #6
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Hi G, I found a jar of said resistors but most are the type 100, with a few type 108, no 180k, sorry. Oh and whilst they're ok electrically, they are in a rough condition.

Frank over in Rutland restuffed these which might be an option, they looked very good, he even re painted bands. You're welcome to a few 108's FOC if you fancy a go.

I will keep an eye out, to see if I come across any whilst in the sheds. I keep stuff like this even though I don't use them for a situation such as this.

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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 10:17 am   #7
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Thanks for looking Andy. When I said to Ed that I was after 1k and 10k I was forgetting the 180k ones of course, which I also need. I have considered re-stuffing and I suppose I might if it should come to that. But I'm still hopeful that the forum will come up with the real things !

I've checked the online sales of course. Bizarrely I did find two 180k high-stabs but they're type 109 and their leads have been snipped so they won't reach between the TL/50s' tags. If you fancy a post-Christmas challenge you could try finding them in the pictures here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Vin...y/112699107860 . The fact that I managed to was, I thought, a bit worrying ...

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 1:19 pm   #8
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Think I'll give that a miss... : )

Found these vintage R's if you get stuck, 180k 1%. Think they're a bit later though, in years that is.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 9:44 pm   #9
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Give me a day or two, I just gave a huge box of these to a friend. I'll ask him whether the values you need are in the load.
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Old 3rd Jan 2018, 11:08 pm   #10
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diabolical Artificer View Post
Found these vintage R's if you get stuck, 180k 1%. Think they're a bit later though, in years that is.
Thanks Andy. In the first pic you can see one of the two amps. This is the condition that they both arrived in - untidy I'm afraid and containing a fair mix of components (not the same 'mix' in the two amps). The second pic shows the other amp - the one I've been working on. You can see where I've fitted the Eries and also where my tacked-in more recent ones are so I can do a bit of testing while I try and track down the last few high-stabs. For now I think that these stand-ins will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by London John View Post
Give me a day or two, I just gave a huge box of these to a friend. I'll ask him whether the values you need are in the load.
That would be great John - many thanks. Perhaps you can see my stand-in 180k in the second pic (it's a Piher running between the sixth set of tags counting from the left, hiding under the original 100pF tubular capacitor.). If I could at least get an Erie type 108 for that position in each amp then I would have one fewer 'sore thumb' sticking out !

If you want some idea of what they might have looked like originally (there's been just a bit of 'getting at' here) then this image gives some clues https://www.gzhifi.com/yx/images/201...6665569543.jpg.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 3:01 am   #11
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

They turn up here from time to time. Typically in 2% tol., and still packed in the MilSpec. bags. Mostly at garage sales & hamfairs.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 7:59 am   #12
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Vast improvement G, looks loads better. In pic one they hadn't even been arsed to line up those Russian PIO's, a real hodge podge. BTW your third Vishay cap on the right is out by a few degrees. : ) Are they NOS or contemporary? Thought all Vishay caps came in blue. Lastly what is that big blue cap? Very handy having two terminals one end and common tother; sort of a bi-axial.

Andy.
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 9:23 am   #13
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankB View Post
They turn up here from time to time. Typically in 2% tol., and still packed in the MilSpec. bags. Mostly at garage sales & hamfairs.
Here too Frank. Over the years I've bought them whenever I've seen them, which mostly explains how I came to have most of the ones I've already fitted. If you come across any of the ones I want, or even have them already, I have contacts in the US who fly backwards and forwards once in a while, so I'd only have to pay you internal mail costs for them.

Quote:
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... Thought all Vishay caps came in blue. Lastly what is that big blue cap? Very handy having two terminals one end and common tother; sort of a bi-axial.
All the Vishays do come in blue Andy. I peeled it off, re-did the labels using waterslide transfers and then covered them over with transparent heatshrink. The result is a lot closer to the original look. It wouldn't fool the experts here of course, but the average 'man on a galloping horse' might not notice. I plan to replace the Russian PIOs with more traditional looking ones too.

The big blue cap is an F&T 16uF+16uF 500V from their AZ range. I'm guessing that they make these in batches and that their availability therefore depends on what their stockists still have on the shelf. I knew of these caps' existence but I couldn't find any for sale on this side of the Atlantic. However they are listed here https://www.ebay.com/itm/Capacitor-F...c/122267242352 for sale in America only. I got one of my US contacts (see above) to order some for me and bring them across on his Christmas family visit. I even have some large green heatshrink, so I could turn them back to their original colour, but I'd lose the label if I did (I'm not sure waterslide will stick reliably to heatshrink) so for now I'm leaving them blue.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 12:06 pm   #14
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Just checked my stock of Eries again and no joy. I suspect I gave you what I had a while back! I do have 4x new 1K hi-stab (3x 2%, 1x 5%) 108s if they would do at a pinch.
Let me know if they are of any use and they will be in a jiffy bag instanter.
Jeremy
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Old 4th Jan 2018, 1:00 pm   #15
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Thanks Jeremy, much appreciated !

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 10:09 am   #16
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Can I give this one a quick bump ?

I'm mostly looking just for the two type 108 (20mm long) 180kohm high-stabs with nice long leads now. If it helps then I'll be at Audiojumble tomorrow and could meet you there. Otherwise I'm happy to pay postage or even come over and collect if you're anywhere near central southern England.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 8:02 pm   #17
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Hi, GJ,

These any good?

PM me your address and I'll pop them in the post to you.

Cheers,

Frank
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 11:57 pm   #18
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

Thanks for this Frank - 150kohms are indeed pretty close.

The story is a bit complex here. It seems there were two versions of the TL/50 Plus. One used an ECC81 as the phase-splitter and needed a good deal of gain from the EF86 first stage. In this case Leak chose 270kohm as the EF86's anode load. The other version of the amp used an ECC83 as the phase-splitter. This is a higher-mu valve than the ECC81 of course and it seems that the EF86 stage gain was therefore tuned down to compensate. The re-tuned EF86 anode load was now 180kohm and that's the resistor I'm looking for (I have two ECC83 amps so I need two of them). I fear 150kohm would be just a bit too low.

I was, however, able to find all the other high-stabs I needed because I have a small collection of them here. If you can spare them your 150kohm ones would be a very welcome addition to my collection in case a need should arise in the future. Leak's TL/25 Plus uses this value as the EF86 anode load, for example. I'll PM you my address just in case.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 12:56 am   #19
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Default Re: Wanted - High-stability Erie ceramic resistors

They're actually 180K - the lighting in the photo was bad: the second band is grey,not green.

I'll put them in the post tomorrow.

Cheers,

Frank
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 9:33 am   #20
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Ah, my old eyes Frank !

As 180kohms they look perfect. Many thanks !

Cheers,

GJ
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