From SECAM to PAL

[winston_1]

Philips occasionally sold the multi/France models in Ireland as well with /07 at the end of the model number.

I imagine the thinking was it was not worth producing a PAL I model with UHF/VHF for such a small market when existing multi/France models would do.

[Maarten]

If it has the /07 suffix (post 1980), it is really intended for Ireland, not for France. Did those also receive SECAM L?

[dragonser]

Hi
Philips did do a multistandard KT3 for France ? I think.
I can take some pictures if anyone is interested.

[winston_1]

Originally Posted by Maarten

If it has the /07 suffix (post 1980), it is really intended for Ireland, not for France. Did those also receive SECAM L?

Yes, they did.

[Maarten]

KT3M chassis, I think. Always interesting to see one.

Philips Multi France sets might have had suffix /01 when sold in various countries or /19 when mainly intended for sale in France. Suffix /01 could mean other things as well, so it shouldn't be assumed to recieve SECAM L for all models with that suffix.

[ben]

(sorry for going off on a tangent here!)
You have just reminded me of a 22" stereo Philips set (L6 chassis?) I found dumped here in Madrid when it was only 3 or 4 years old. Can't recall what I did to get it working, but when I did so, I remember puzzling over why the Nicam wouldn't work (Spain uses Nicam), later I saw the /19 prefix... Presumably that set, apart from SECAM for France, would be PAL B/G (zweiton FM stereo !)

I still have it somewhere in the workshop. It would be interesting to see the menus on it for clues.

[SteveCG]

I had a UK purchased Grundig Multi-Standard set for many years - long gone now - which could handle many standards including French Band I SECAM, system l', transmissions. It had Zweiton Stereo which indeed was no use in the UK, but did work on DX transmissions.

[Richard_FM]

My 21" Philips certainly had PAL B/G & I and could display NTSC via scart, I'm not sure if it could display SECAM.

Even when set to UK it could tune Bands I to V.

[winston_1]

Originally Posted by ben

You have just reminded me of a 22" stereo Philips set (L6 chassis?) I found dumped here in Madrid when it was only 3 or 4 years old. Can't recall what I did to get it working, but when I did so, I remember puzzling over why the Nicam wouldn't work (Spain uses Nicam), later I saw the /19 prefix... Presumably that set, apart from SECAM for France, would be PAL B/G (zweiton FM stereo !)

Spain used both Nicam and Zweiton at one stage. The private stations used one and the public stations the other.
France was fairly late coming to Nicam and Grundig multistandard sets sold in the UK would not decode it even though they worked on UK Nicam.
Early on France used Antiope for teletext and I never found any set that could decode it. They later switched to world service teletext.

Philips sold one set in the UK the 3850/05 that had a zweiton decoder optimised for system I, presumably with the second sound carrier at 6.242 MHz. This was future proofing that didn't work out.

[thx1138]

We had a tesla model, I cant recall which one, but on the front panel below tuner was 2 push buttons, D-K / B-G and other ofc PAL/Secam , i think it must have been bought early 90s. Incidentally channel R5 ( band 2 vhf) was still on air here until 1999 at least in my reigon. The OIRT FM band only switched off by 2004. Good old days !

[Tester.]

Originally Posted by winston_1

Spain used both Nicam and Zweiton at one stage. The private stations used one and the public stations the other.

Just for facts' sake: in Spain, the national channels (both 'public' —TVE 1&2— and 'private' —just Antena 3; Tele 5 and C+ never bothered—) used NICAM (but only on selected transmitters)... and just a few regional (public) ones used Zweiton. CATV systems were a mixed bag.

[hans]

Could the Nicam sets decode Zweiton?

[ben]

Originally Posted by winston_1

Spain used both Nicam and Zweiton at one stage. The private stations used one and the public stations the other..

Interesting. All the zweiton sets and VCRs I have come across here were made pre-1990, so I suspect that in the late 80s they were testing the water for stereo using zweiton, as they could use imported stereo sets from Germany, which also used Pal B/G.

The earliest reference to stereo TV audio in Spain I have is in a Video recorder magazine from circa 1983. At that time it was not implemented but the German system was described as a possible future advance.

Clearly, zweiton was not adopted widely in Spain, or for more than a few years, as when Nicam appeared it was quickly dropped - by the mid 1990s Nicam was established. Even TeleMadrid used to broadcast films in Nicam Dual I/II. Certainly, that station plus TVE, Antena3 and Telecinco were all using Nicam in the mid to late 1990s when I started living here.

[Tester.]

Tele 5 and C+ didn't bother with NICAM. And then again, to my knowledge, Antena 3 only offered it in Madrid. All the main regional (public) channels also went with NICAM from 1992 onwards — except for Catalonian ‘TV3’ and ‘Canal 33’, which kept the Zweiton system for quite a few years more.

[Tester.]

Originally Posted by hans

Could the Nicam sets decode Zweiton?

Not necessarily, not ‘by default’; but the vast majority of stereo-capable sets (TVs, VCRs,...) from the 90s on were fitted with decoder boards/chips for the two systems.

[ben]

Originally Posted by Tester.

Tele 5 and C+ didn't bother with NICAM. .

Yes, at least Telecinco did, in Madrid and Barcelona.
Canal plus/sogecable used the old Nagravisión analogue encryption signal. Since I never bothered paying the 15,000 ptas plus subscription charges I cannot say first hand what audio they used. My partner's father had it, and I vaguely recall mono audio and snowy picture quality .

[ben]

Originally Posted by Tester.

Not necessarily, not ‘by default’; but the vast majority of stereo-capable sets (TVs, VCRs,...) from the 90s on were fitted with decoder boards/chips for the two systems.

Again I must disagree. I have never in 20 years here found such a machine. The stereo videos and TVs were either one or the other system. However, I would be interested to see proof to the contrary.

[Tester.]

My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I distinctly recall that Tele 5 perhaps briefly tried, but abandoned the idea (ST/bil transmissions). Some cable operators maybe did serve the channel in (false?) ST/NICAM.

I've just gone back to a few tapes I recorded back then (receiving from Torrespaña) and indeed — Antena 3 in stereo, Tele 5 in mono. And I've also found some old posts online confirming my recollections:

— "En Madrid se escuchan en stereo y dual todas menos T5 y C+."
— "En Barcelona, TVE/La2 emite en Estereo... TV3/C33/K3 emiten en Estereo, Dual... T5, A3 y demás, en Mono."
— "Hace unos anyos, Tele5 emitia algunas series en dual castellano/catalan pero
duro poco."

As for two-system stereo TVs and VCRs, see the attached images (just some examples of not-so-high-end models, sporting the "NICAM/A2" or "NICAM/IGR" badge.)

[Tester.]

More examples... and on my experience, even later-production units that didn't proclaim so with a badge, actually supported both systems. Bear in mind, I mostly deal with EU/EG units... but I also found this behaviour in EK models. YMMV

[ben]

Originally Posted by Tester.

As for two-system stereo TVs and VCRs, see the attached images (just some examples of not-so-high-end models, sporting the "NICAM/A2" or "NICAM/IGR" badge.)

Ahhhh, my mistake. For some reason I was thinking of the really early equipment. You are quite right, the Zweiton and Nicam features were offered on a whole lot of stereo sets here. I even worked on or own some of the kit you pictured!

Interesting that Catalan local TV kept the zweiton system going.

Do you know if TVE still broadcast on VHF in the 2000s? I remember finding it on Channel 2-4 but that may have just been the antenna distribution system in the building I was living in then.