Whatever happened to,....

[G6Tanuki]

Foloowing on fromn this thread: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/....php?p=1542565 about the fate of Phillips, I got to pondering various other brands' trajectories.

Electrolux? What happened to them? In the 70s/80s they ran a brilliant ad campaign showing an Electrolux cleaner supporting itself by its suction against a vertical wall.

"Nothing Sucks like an Electrolux".

Japanese brands: Sharp, Sanyo, Panasonic, Toshiba - were once big in the world of consumer electronics. I had a Panasonic vacuum-cleaner which served me well for 15 years, and Toshiba were a go-to brand for laptops/TVs in the 1990s [well-popular enough that I compiled a special version of the "Kermit" comms-program to deal with the low-power serial-comms chipset used by Toshiba for their laptop RS232 port].

I also had a bunch of Sharp "Showerwave" combi microwave-oven/grill things in rental properties.

These days these are all legacy brands. No advertising, no public image.

Forward a decade: Nokia were once a force in mobile-phones, but they lost the plot and are now all-but extinct.

Same goes for '"Research in Motion" and their BlackBerry phones/messenger app. Now discontinued, and RiM similarly.

My good people - What other examples come to mind?

[Maarten]

Microsoft took over Nokia and dismantled what they took over (which everyone should have known in advance, they never succeeded in the phone field despite numerous previous attempts). However HMD, who has the rights to the name Nokia now, is still quite close to the original Nokia phone division (which was originally partially Salora and aquired a Philips factory along the way). I would call them extinct as in "phoenix", not extinct as in "dodo".. Their design philosophy still lives on for a bit, though any chance of a well working innovative phone operating system was gone as soon as they were first taken over.

Sendo (with some possible roots in Philips and/or Pye and also a victim of Microsoft phone) was bankrupted, got taken over by Motorola who went on to sell their phone division to Google, who stripped them of their intellectual property and sold the dead carcass to Lenovo who now still exploit the Motorola brand name.

Electrolux is still in business. They took over Zanussi financially back in the 1980's and later physically integrated their operations, later they took over AEG and some other well known brands.

Most of the big Japanese brands still exist in some form but mainly produce in Asia for their home markets nowadays. After having used new or taken over local European factories for the last decades, they now often rely on deals with OEM's such as TPV and Vestel to supply the European market or in case of Sharp are integrated with Foxconn but still seem to have some 3rd party OEM deals if I'm not mistaken.

[David G4EBT]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Forward a decade: Nokia were once a force in mobile-phones, but they lost the plot and are now all-but extinct.

Coincidentally, on Channel 4 tonight at 10.55pm, there is the first episode of a new 'Walter Presents' six-part series in Finnish and English, entitled 'Mobile 101'. It's a drama based on the true story of Nokia's rise from a small company to a global titan in the mobile phone market. It starts in 1988 after the company - previously a small rubber an manufacturing concern - made steps towards becoming a leading player in the mobile phone industry.

It ran into trouble with Motorola who sued for patent infringement. The drama follows the lawyers fighting the case, the engineers designing what would become the hugely successful '101', to the Chief Financial Officer navigating a shareholder coup after the Chief Executive's suicide.

(I think the other five episodes will be on 'More 4')

All six episodes are here for those who prefer to 'binge':

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/mobile-101

For those who aren't familiar with ‘Walter Presents’, it's a video-on-demand service of the UK's Channel 4, as part of its streaming platform. Launched on 3 January 2016, and specialises in foreign-language drama and comedy with English subtitles. It's named after Walter Iuzzolino, an Italian TV producers, who selects its content. He sets three criteria for selection: the show must be popular in its native country; it must be "award-winning or already critically acclaimed"; and it must have "the finest writing, directing and acting that each country has to offer...something worth our time as viewers’’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Presents

Hope that's of interest.

[Aub]

I was recently a bit miffed because internet searches kept saying that Motorola phones are made in India. I bought one and it's made in China

Aub

[Craig Sawyers]

Sanyo was bought by the renamed Motorola - OnSemi - and dismantled. They bought it for the semiconductor business - but they obsoleted most of their devices.

OnSemi did precisely the same thing with Fairchild. My opinion is not improved when large swathes of their commonly used semiconductors are now out at the end of 2024 for next delivery.

Vishay went on a similar acquisition rampage. BC, Dale, Draloric, General Semiconductor, Mills, Roderstein, Sfernice, Siliconix, Sprague - and they are just the ones I've heard of - there are actually a total of 29 companies they bought over the years. At least they have continued with the best bits of all of them. Not like OnSemi's slash and destroy.

off

Craig

[Doghouse Riley]

There's still Bush around.

Sadly, it's just a name that's stuck on any old bit of rubbish coming out of the far East.

[arjoll]

Panasonic are still around, we bought a new Panasonic OLED TV in January to replace our 2011 Pansonic LED backlit LCD. It's a great TV.

A quick scan of the Harvey Norman site shows they also do audio stuff (headphones, bluetooth speakers), digital cameras, microwaves, washing machines etc as well. Oh, and batteries.

So Panasonic are still around.

We have a Sharp flatbed inverter microwave which replaced our Panasonic a couple of years ago.

The Toshiba PC business was bought out by Dynabook. I stopped doing them over 15 years ago when HP started offering on-site warranty - Toshiba was only ever return to base here. They still do storage.

[arjoll]

Originally Posted by Maarten

Microsoft took over Nokia and dismantled what they took over (which everyone should have known in advance, they never succeeded in the phone field despite numerous previous attempts).

Microsoft did succeed in the early smartphone market - the Windows CE-based Windows Mobile led the market until the early iPhone era, but they were slow to move on with things like multi-touch. Windows Phone 8 and Windows Mobile 10 were great operating systems but failed to get developer support. It was a sad day when I replaced my Microsoft Lumia 950 with a Nokia 7 Plus (now on a Note 20 Ultra).

[paulsherwin]

In Europe, many Panasonic TVs are Vestels. See https://www.avforums.com/threads/how...estel.2019864/

[Richard_FM]

I remember BBC2 or 4 showed a Finnish documentary about the rise & fall of Nokia, which seemed to be mostly due to complacency in the management & being unable to cope when smart phones became standard. They rejected Android when it was offered to them, & came up with two different operating systems, neither of which caught on.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by arjoll

Microsoft did succeed in the early smartphone market - the Windows CE-based Windows Mobile led the market until the early iPhone era, but they were slow to move on with things like multi-touch. Windows Phone 8 and Windows Mobile 10 were great operating systems but failed to get developer support. It was a sad day when I replaced my Microsoft Lumia 950 with a Nokia 7 Plus (now on a Note 20 Ultra).

I'm not sure about Windows Mobile as the market leader. I'm pretty sure Symbian had the larger marketshare back then and was only displaced by Android, not even by the iPhone. I would have to look it up, but it could very well be that Windows Mobile made it to the top 3 market share for some time.

I also think that version of Windows Mobile was what MS stuffed Sendo with, then Sendo switched to Symbian but didn't manage to stay afloat financially. It might have set back MS as well, having to switch to HTC last minute and having to settle in court with Motorola later on.

In any case, I don't say MS' various attempts at the mobile phone market failed because of bad hardware or software. Some idea's were technically on par or better and I'm sure the Lumia 950 was one of the better phones at the time, one of the Android killers that Nokia and later MS released from roughly 2011 on until its demise. It's just that it seems that mobile telephony was never something they could get exactly right on all fronts (hardware, software, marketing, ecosystem) at the same time and then killed off prematurely each time so it would never get a chance to pave the way for the next try.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by Richard_FM

I remember BBC2 or 4 showed a Finnish documentary about the rise & fall of Nokia, which seemed to be mostly due to complacency in the management & being unable to cope when smart phones became standard. They rejected Android when it was offered to them, & came up with two different operating systems, neither of which caught on.

Symbian was not new at that point in time; it had already held the largest smartphone market share for quite some time and was in many aspects superior over Android, so the choice to reject Android was understandable... The choice to develop a new operating system for their high end models was also understandable, but it took too long to get to market and also was one of the factors that caused crucial delays in Symbian development so it took too long to get "touch" integrated exactly right which they only managed around 2010-2012. Meanwhile they had slowly lost market share to Android. Turning to Microsoft for their high end models was probably a good "plan B", but it came so late, they had to accept a move boss (is that the right word? Zetbaas in Dutch, a manager who is appointed to act on external interests) who then proceeded to sell the entire division to his former employer - also killing of their lower segment smartphones prematurely, which were at that point in time in a position to still compete with lower segment Android phones.

In any case, their TV division went somewhat the same way in the late 1990's, but they sold it before it went under and it actually survived longer (lived through at least one bankruptcy). It might also have survived longer because it was a joint effort of several old companies that were never fully integrated under Nokia (which was itself never in the TV business to begin with). The last iteration of the former Nokia consumer electronics ended up in the old Finlux factory, under ownership of Otrum who then ended manufacture while it was still barely profitable.

[Maarten]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

In Europe, many Panasonic TVs are Vestels. See https://www.avforums.com/threads/how...estel.2019864/

And before that or simultaneously, they used TPV as their OEM.

Though I think all OLED models were made by Panasonic themselves.

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Sanyo was bought by the renamed Motorola - OnSemi - and dismantled. They bought it for the semiconductor business - but they obsoleted most of their devices.

OnSemi did precisely the same thing with Fairchild. My opinion is not improved when large swathes of their commonly used semiconductors are now out at the end of 2024 for next delivery.

Motorola split into three:

The Motorola name was kept for phones

On Semiconductor was floated off for the simple semiconductos

Then Freescale was floated off for the more complex semiconductors and RF power.

Things were stable for a while

Philips had floated off their semiconductor division as NXP a bit earlier. NXP now bought the RF power business of Freescale.

The US government took umbrage at NXP now owning too much of the RF power industry, seen as a critical defence technology. Action was going to be taken if NXP didn't divest itself of part of the business. They chose to sell off the old Philips RF power product line with fab and development labs. I think it was a Chinese consortium bought it and they're selling the Philips originated devices under the name 'Amplion' Meanwhile the old Motorola RF semiconductor people are cranking out the old Motorola line and newer once-Freescale devices under the NXP brand.

When the music stops....

David

[knobtwiddler]

When M$ bought Nokia, I opened the GPS app on my E71 (which had been serving me very well for some time), only to find it had been bricked, with the message "you might want to use this opportunity to try one of M$'s new smartphones". As a customer, it was one of the most crass treatments I've ever received from any business. They could've at least kept it working, but warned people it wouldn't be updated from now on. But no, they bricked it and then tried to sell me a M$ phone. I vowed from that point onwards that I would never, ever deliberately buy a M$ product Not easy to do as it comes bundled with most laptops, so I accept that. Apart from pre-loaded OS, I never buy M$. To hell with them.

We are seeing a seachange WRT to Japanese manufacturing. Technics (part of Matsushita and under Panasonic) no longer makes anything in Japan... It's all made in Malaysia, even the stuff costing 5 figures. Nikon no longer make any cameras in Japan....(let that sink in...). Sony has long been out of Japan to my knowledge (maybe they make high-end broadcast / RF stuff there?).

I recently bought an audio metering unit by Technics from 1978. It had never been opened (screw paint intact) and has a 50dB scale on d'arsonval meters - is quite a sensitive instrument. It works to factory spec within a fraction of a dB and needs no calibration (there are many trimmers). I doubt it worked better in 1978. How many Technics items made today will work as well in 45 years time?

[Nicola_Jayne]

Originally Posted by Aub

I was recently a bit miffed because internet searches kept saying that Motorola phones are made in India. I bought one and it's made in China

Aub

it seems to be luck of the draw where you phone is made now

Apple assembles phones in both China and India

Samsung assembles phones in Korea, Vietnam and India - and increasingly the premium Lines are not guaranteed to be assemebled by the Korean plants ( as initially the cheaper A series were assembled in vietnam and mid range phones started being assembled in Inda - probably reflecting m arket positioning of the devices )

[Nicola_Jayne]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

Motorola split into three:

The Motorola name was kept for phones

On Semiconductor was floated off for the simple semiconductos

Then Freescale was floated off for the more complex semiconductors and RF power.

Things were stable for a while

Philips had floated off their semiconductor division as NXP a bit earlier. NXP now bought the RF power business of Freescale.

The US government took umbrage at NXP now owning too much of the RF power industry, seen as a critical defence technology. Action was going to be taken if NXP didn't divest itself of part of the business. They chose to sell off the old Philips RF power product line with fab and development labs. I think it was a Chinese consortium bought it and they're selling the Philips originated devices under the name 'Amplion' Meanwhile the old Motorola RF semiconductor people are cranking out the old Motorola line and newer once-Freescale devices under the NXP brand.

When the music stops....

David

also Motorola RF / public safety comms / PMR seperated from the phones business along the way

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by knobtwiddler

Nikon no longer make any cameras in Japan....(let that sink in...).

It's not sinking in here. I have a current model Nikon (In stock at Grey's in Churton Street, London) and it's very proud about being made in Japan. It can still do a number of things the latest crop of mirrorless cameras can't do so well, so it's likely to remain current for some time. This model was introduced just in time for the 2020 olympics that never was. A few of the higher performance lenses I have are still current products and carry made in Japan markings. Nikon have moved most of their higher volume models to Malaysia, but it's a Nikon owned, operated and controlled plant. Some of the Nikon owners' club go out for tours, so Nikons are still Nikons. There were a couple of film cameras got farmed out decades ago but they weren't too successful.

Nikon have long been part of Mitsubishi.

David

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by David G4EBT

For those who aren't familiar with ‘Walter Presents’, it's a video-on-demand service of the UK's Channel 4, as part of its streaming platform. Launched on 3 January 2016, and specialises in foreign-language drama and comedy with English subtitles. It's named after Walter Iuzzolino, an Italian TV producers, who selects its content. He sets three criteria for selection: the show must be popular in its native country; it must be "award-winning or already critically acclaimed"; and it must have "the finest writing, directing and acting that each country has to offer...something worth our time as viewers’’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Presents

Hope that's of interest.

Off topic for the Thread but just to say that I regularly watch the numerous Walter Presents, particulalry the foreign crime drama ones, generally they are very good. Currently watching "Astrid - Murder in Paris".

David

[Sideband]

What about JVC? I worked for them briefly in 1994 before going back to Philips. I've seen a few audio accessories like headphones and such-like with the JVC brand but nothing like the cameras and TV's they once manufactured.