UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Other Discussions > Forum Announcements and Comments

Notices

Forum Announcements and Comments Announcements about forum changes will be made in this section. All new threads here now require moderator approval.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 27th May 2012, 3:27 pm   #181
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: This forum

Co-incidentally, whilst searching the Net for something yesterday, I staggered across a deleted thread which I was a contributor to. It was on Boardreader, and related to a piece of test equipment I bought from another member. It held no interest to anyone except us, and we know what it said.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 3:33 pm   #182
repairman 1234
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 749
Default Re: This forum

I don't think anyone is worried about stuff like that going (it is more or less just good housekeeping) but that is not what we have been told has been deleted here.
I think we should have a quarantine area, that holds posts before deletion in case anyone wants to copy any info over.
repairman 1234 is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 3:35 pm   #183
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,060
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Cap View Post
I have been recommended the following:-
www.servage.net for £4.50 per month you get unlimited disc space and unlimited transfer bandwidth. Full php support suitable for this Forum plus sql databases which should satisfy the needs of the Forum. My friend has been using this service for 10 years and has watched them grow and improve to offer this service reliably. He has 10 separate websites hosted in the one account without any issue.
I looked at their website and it all looks too good to be true (which means it probably is). Unlimited everything for £4.50 per month....

In the AUP it says:

Quote:
Servage accounts operate on shared resources. Excessive use or abuse of these shared network resources by one customer may have a negative impact on all other customers. Misuse of network resources in a manner which impairs network performance is prohibited by this policy and may result in termination of your account. You are prohibited from excessive consumption of resources, including CPU time, memory, disk space and session time. You may not use resource-intensive programs which negatively impact other customers or the performances of Servage systems or networks.
So that rules out a large forum like this then.

This makes interesting reading too... https://www.facebook.com/servage?filter=2 Lots of issues with sites being hacked, poor customer service etc.

I would be looking for something more serious, professional and honest/upfront about their service etc.
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster
Paul Stenning is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 3:56 pm   #184
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,060
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by evingar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepilot View Post
I run a website myself (nothing to do with electronics). Sometime ago I reached the limits of what cheap hosting could provide and given that the site wasn't making any money I wasn't prepared to spend any more. I decided to try hosting it myself. It turned out to be very easy. An old PC with Linux and Apache installed and that was about it really. Admittedly the uplink was a bit slow but the only cost was the electricity to run the PC. Maybe a solution along those lines would be possible.
My sister does this with a commercial site she runs - An old PC called "1Pound_Server". As you say, dead cheap to do and fine for her very specialist site (day lilies), prob is, more than a hand full of users and the thing grinds to a standstill. I'm no expert, but I think to host something the size of this forum well, would need a very fast connection and some decent hardware.
Precisely.
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster
Paul Stenning is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 4:24 pm   #185
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,060
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_RK View Post
EDIT: Paul S's posts, in a great many cases, I can see will have been made in the course of his moderating the forum, and in response to other posts meeting the criteria you list, and as such preserving them without keeping what occasioned them would of course be pointless. Other members without responsibilities for moderation may well be completely at a loss for how and when they might have made hundreds of meaningless, irrelevant, illegible or abusive posts, or participated in such threads.
A lot of MY posts that were "lost" were discussions in the staff room area where we dealt with post reports, spammers, and other general forum administration. So nothing of any value at all, and we cleared out all those discussions from before Jan 2011. In fact I probably post more in the staff room than in the public forums at the moment.

A lot of the public stuff that has been languishing in the skip for ages and has now gone were things like birthday greeting posts, new member introductions where neither the new member or respondents said anything of note, equipment transport requests and arrangements, requests for service data that were given a link to "up top there", requests for parts that were given links to the same suppliers as dozens of other similar requests, off-topic and contentions stuff about DAB, operating system comparisons etc, and some of the previous protracted threads about how the site is run. There was also some of the old eBay section threads still in there which those who were around when all that blew up will know had to vanish from view quickly.

These were moved to "the skip" in the course of normal moderating. Generally when a section such as the sales and wanted ones are cleared out prior to a certain date we post to that effect, and these posts end up in the skip too.

Invariably a small percentage of the stuff that was in there and has now gone may, in hindsight, have been worth retaining. But nobody has the time to sift through that lot. We took the view that the contents of the skip had been put in there for good reasons, hadn't been missed despite in some cases being in there for several years, and it was worth getting rid of it to reduce the size of the database tables to see if it would help database performance.
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster
Paul Stenning is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 4:28 pm   #186
Sean Williams
Dekatron
 
Sean Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW
Posts: 3,517
Default Re: This forum

I have to say, and I think i am probably in the minority of posters here in this thread. I couldnt care less what I have posted in the past, nothing I have said here makes an ounce of difference to life in general, nothing I have posted is in my mind worthy of saving for future generations.

Should this forum cease to exist, I would hope it would be allowed to rest in peace, and not have the library of posts handed over to another group to paw over.

Given the general whining the last two or three pages have generated, I would not blame Paul, or the moderators if they decided to call it a day, sure it would be a great loss, but think of the spare time they would have again.

Would the BVWS want to take this forum on, considering the bickering that appears to be so rife these days.... I think possibly not.

Instead of arguing the toss about a load of posts that were not on public view (and that most of you knew nothing about) how about helping the mainstream in keeping this place open?
__________________
Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished
Sean Williams is online now  
Old 27th May 2012, 4:30 pm   #187
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,060
Default Re: This forum

Regarding the other (main) issues, that of how the forum will keep running in the future, hosting, funding etc, we are following the thread and noting opinions but deliberately not posting very much as we want to get an overall feel without trying to steer or influence the outcome.

There is also a similar (but much briefer!) discussion taking place in the staff room where members of the mod team are giving their thoughts.

It is likely that the forum will survive some way or another. The exact method is not yet decided. Clearly there is plenty of support here for it to survive.
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster
Paul Stenning is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 4:35 pm   #188
wireful3
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 808
Default Re: This forum

Robert Your earlier comment about the Forum already being lost is important. We must remember that Paul and the Moderators had to do this before there were any indications that there might be enough members willing to provide financial cover. To be blunt it was essential to ensure it did not compromise Paul's livelihood. Fortunately the financial aspect of this seems soluble.

These items are now lost so they are in the past. If amongst them there was knowledge not available anywhere else -then sad-.


Going back to another aspect of this debate, unfortunately to keep the Forum as useful as it is, some form of screening posts is needed. The Moderators in my view do this very successfully. They understand the subject so are unlikely to make many mistakes. Also from things said, they do not destroy posts immediately but put them in a skip.
I can understand the desire to keep everything, in case it might be useful but there is a cost. This may not be very much financially but at some stage it may be large in terms of time. Historically there has always been the equivalent of our notional skip. It was usually emptied into what archaeologists now see as middens. To me it illustrates that with modern technology things that have been thrown away as opposed to re-cycled or deliberately destroyed are not necessarily lost for ever. As I am not an archaeologist or historian I can't assess the value of this activity but I am often amazed and dubious, about what is reconstructed from bits found. Some of it may be completely wrong and misleading. For instance a few resistors broken valves and corroded wire from my bin could have come from almost anything.

When I think about what is lost by ejecting items in the skip I can see three aspects.
One is the loss of breakthrough technical insights, not available anywhere else in the world, inadvertently thrown away. I don't see anything I have contributed in this category.
The second is information related to a problem someone may encounter in the near future. It may not be junk but if the items have not been catalogued then retrieving it is tedious and time consuming. The alternative in this case, of searching a general catalogued library elsewhere, might be more effective.
The third for the distant future is the fact that there was a group of people like us, all interested in the same sort of thing. When forced to make a decision about what to keep some items were rejected. No one will know what they were. On this aspect the loss would be not knowing what these people (us) considered offensive, libelous, incomprehensible or irrelevant.

On a more serious aspect, there is a good reason for destroying some things. Technically, making a libelous statement available to the public is publishing a libel. It can have nasty consequences.The publisher is as liable as the person making the statement. There are very few places where potentially libelous statements can be made with impunity and this is not one of them. The only place I know of for certain is the House of Commons.
wireful3 is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 4:54 pm   #189
ThePillenwerfer
Octode
 
ThePillenwerfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,453
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Williams View Post
I have to say, and I think I am probably in the minority of posters here in this thread. I couldn't care less what I have posted in the past, nothing I have said here makes an ounce of difference to life in general, nothing I have posted is in my mind worthy of saving for future generations.
You MAY be in a minority, Sean, though just because the Retention Party is most vocal doesn't make them the majority - most members haven't said anything at all, you are not alone as I fully concur with your views.

As far as I'm concerned if I post a question as soon as I have read the answer it has served its purpose. If I answer one this has been fulfilled as soon as the questioner has seen it. For instance, how many copies of the fact that you can replace a capacitor with one of higher voltage rating do we need to keep?

I can certainly see complaints being made were the database to be handed over to another person or organisation, a view with which I would have some sympathy.

- Joe
ThePillenwerfer is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 5:10 pm   #190
audiomagpie
Heptode
 
audiomagpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire, UK.
Posts: 816
Default Re: This forum

I should be very sorry to see this Forum close. I've gained greatly from the help and advice received, including that in archives, since I stumbled across the Forum over 9 years ago. I visit daily, although I don't usually sign in unless I'm active in a post or feel the need to make comments, or for PM's etc.

I would be more than happy to contribute a few quid periodically not only to safeguard this resource but also to maintain it as a happy meeting place where we like minded anoraks can help each other out.

Greg
__________________
Greg

BVWS committee chairman
audiomagpie is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 5:11 pm   #191
wireful3
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 808
Default Re: This forum

I have tried to outline the situation as I see it for debate but, to make things clear, Personally I don't care what happens to my posts either.
wireful3 is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 5:37 pm   #192
Robert Darwent
Heptode
 
Robert Darwent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 990
Default Re: This forum

To those members who have stated they don't care what happens to their posts after they have received help or got an answer to their question.

Well if that should prove to be the view of the 'silent majority' then lets delete all threads after one month of being on view. It would certainly solve all the issues of bandwidth and server load for sure!

But in my opinion a very short-sighted and frankly selfish attitude to have with regards to other members facing similar problems and requiring the same information in the future.

Regards
__________________

Robert G0UHF
www.wavesintheair.co.uk
Robert Darwent is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 5:41 pm   #193
Paul_RK
Dekatron
 
Paul_RK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 4,246
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by wireful3 View Post
I have tried to outline the situation as I see it for debate but, to make things clear, Personally I don't care what happens to my posts either.
I've no particular care for my own, just a general sense that what was thought worth saying once may be found worth hearing again: indeed, that anything that definitely won't was probably not worth saying in the first place, unless its intention was strictly practical and time-limited. Then, this is the sort of topic that brings into the open the very wide range of views held by forum members about life, the universe and everything.

It's my impression so far that, if posts thought not worthy of a place in an open archive can be shunted off into a limbo where they can sit indefinitely without costing anyone further time or putting strain on reliable hosting at a level we the members are collectively happy to support, then most folks may be fairly contented with the outcome.

Paul

Last edited by Paul_RK; 27th May 2012 at 5:53 pm.
Paul_RK is online now  
Old 27th May 2012, 5:56 pm   #194
wireful3
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 808
Default Re: This forum

I think the same Paul, if someone thinks any of my posts worth saving, fine, if they think they are not, fine also. For instance my last post is probably not worth saving because the meaning was not clear.
wireful3 is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 6:04 pm   #195
Radio_Dave
Nonode
 
Radio_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 2,543
Default Re: This forum

Maybe members who are worried about losing "valuable" threads should start making more use of the "Rate this thread" voting system. I doubt the mods would even consider deleting a thread if it has picked up a star or two?

David
Radio_Dave is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 6:06 pm   #196
glowinganode
Octode
 
glowinganode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,522
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
We are all of the generation whom had to learn electronics by experience without formal teaching as none were there at the time. This involved spending time with our heads in the backs of sets while the older folk at the time were telling us we should get our spelling spot on first.
Twice you've said this, can you please clarify what you mean as I don't get the relevance in relation to this thread?
Thanks, Rob.
__________________
We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
glowinganode is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 6:23 pm   #197
Robert Darwent
Heptode
 
Robert Darwent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 990
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_Dave View Post
Maybe members who are worried about loosing "valuable" threads should start making more use of the "Rate this thread" voting system. I doubt the mods would even consider deleting a thread if it has picked up a star or two?
Yes probably worth doing David. I would also point out that 'all' threads are potentially valuable, especially if you're searching for something obscure which is often the case with items of vintage equipment. A snippet of information mentioned in a post can make all the difference.

Regards
__________________

Robert G0UHF
www.wavesintheair.co.uk
Robert Darwent is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 6:34 pm   #198
repairman 1234
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 749
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowinganode View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
We are all of the generation whom had to learn electronics by experience without formal teaching as none were there at the time. This involved spending time with our heads in the backs of sets while the older folk at the time were telling us we should get our spelling spot on first.
Twice you've said this, can you please clarify what you mean as I don't get the relevance in relation to this thread?
Thanks, Rob.
I am sure that Refugee will be along soon to state his point, but I have taken it to mean that... Most of us spent time behind TV's that maybe should have been spent learning the three R's which may account for some of us lacking as typists.
I for one am pleased that I spent more time playing with old electronics, otherwise the only Forum that I could join would be a word perfect typing one. What a dull world that would be!
repairman 1234 is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 6:57 pm   #199
harvestgold
Hexode
 
harvestgold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 282
Default Re: This forum

I've been reading this thread with interest, so I thought I'd stick my opinion into the hat. I'm certainly not the biggest poster on her, but I visit every day and have found that the wealth of information, helpfulness of members and genuine enthusiasm for vintage technology have both re-invigorated and sustained my interest in the hobby.

I have always been impressed with the high standard of moderation, which I can understand some might find to be overly strict, but I’m afraid I don’t. I'm a member of several other forums too, none of which are as pleasant to post in and visit as this one - due in part to the high quality moderation (as well as a great bunch of people who post, of course!)

I've been saddened by the recent negative postings which have occurred in this section. Whilst there’s nothing wrong with a good old moan from time to time, there seems to have been almost an orchestrated attempt to whip up discontent and pick arguments with the owner and moderating team, who give their time, skills (and server space) voluntarily for the good of our hobby. Relatively minor issues have been blown out of proportion and certain members seem to think that their voices should be heard above everybody else’s because they can argue more eloquently (or loudly) than others.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of members of this site are perfectly happy with the way it's being run, and would (like me) be very upset if it were to be closed or changed to any great degree. Those who are unhappy know there are alternative forums, which they may find more to their liking. Perhaps they are already members – there’s a thought . . .

Enough rambling!

My opinion on future funding would be:

A quotation for professional hosting of the site is acquired and published on here together with a click-on "Donate" button (the payment taken in the same way as buying service information from Paul). Once the required total is reached, this button would disappear until the following year (or six months, or whatever!). I'm sure there would be sufficient donations very quickly.

I could see major complications with a subscription approach, e.g. what would happen to any surplus funds? How would it affect the number of members? Would the sense of entitlement of members who have paid lead to an outbreak of arguments such as,” I’ve paid my subscription for this – I want it done this way!”?

Sorry for rambling on. Please feel free to send this post to “The Skip” when it’s time has come – or before, if you see fit – this whole thread is of no long term relevance to our hobby.

to the ever patient mods and Paul Stenning from me.

Neil.
harvestgold is offline  
Old 27th May 2012, 7:00 pm   #200
repairman 1234
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 749
Default Re: This forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Darwent View Post
To those members who have stated they don't care what happens to their posts after they have received help or got an answer to their question.

Well if that should prove to be the view of the 'silent majority' then lets delete all threads after one month of being on view. It would certainly solve all the issues of bandwidth and server load for sure!

But in my opinion a very short-sighted and frankly selfish attitude to have with regards to other members facing similar problems and requiring the same information in the future.

Regards
100% Agree here too.

Surely the idea of having all of the info that we have is that we can search and retrieve old info using our search tool.
repairman 1234 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:22 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.