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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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1st Jul 2018, 1:54 pm | #1 |
Triode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire, UK.
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Production durations
There's plenty of information available on when a particular valve radio was released. But what seems less accessible is information on how long a radio was in production for.
Sometimes the age of a radio can be determined from component date stamps, but if these cannot be found it seems to me that all that can be said is that it's no older than the first production date for that model (I suppose in certain cases the serial number might help also). Were valve radios from the 30's through to the 50's like mobile phones are now; ie only in production for a year or so to make way for the following year's better, shinier model? Or were some manufactured for extended runs? Ed |
1st Jul 2018, 4:26 pm | #2 |
Heptode
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Coventry, West Midlands, UK.
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Re: Production durations
I am not sure about any others but I do know that the Regentone AM/FM chassis used in the A155 radio,1955 or there abouts, and some radiograms was used in different modified forms until 1958ish when it was used with twin output channels in the NINE-3 stereo radiogram
Steve |
1st Jul 2018, 5:00 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
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Re: Production durations
I guess 'it depends' on the target market: you also need to distinguish between original-production and subsequent 'reworks' - there were plenty of WWII-era AR88 receivers, 19-set transceivers and Pye PCRs that got reworked in REME workshops throughout the 1950s though they were really quite obsolete by then.
Same goes for the Pye-inspired "WS62" radio - loads of these were reworked and sold onto the trawler-radio scene in the early-sixties. In the broadcast-radio/TV world the same often happened: particularly in the radio/TV rental market older models would be 'refurbished' and then rented-out to poor customers at what seemed to them as a bargain weekly-cost. A design that had long since recouped its original design/production-line setup costs and was now horribly obsolete could still be a profit-centre for the manufacturer. [Think of the old Morris Minor; utterly outclassed in the early-1960s but stayed in production as a cash-cow until 1971!] |
1st Jul 2018, 6:18 pm | #4 |
Moderator
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Re: Production durations
Some successful models did stay in production for a long time. I think the DAC90A was still being made in the late 50s. Various models of the Ekco A104/A144 series were in production for about 5 years.
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1st Jul 2018, 7:38 pm | #5 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
Quote:
Thinking about it, a lot did happen between 1931 and 1940 as regards outward design and functionality - much more than has happened lately in analogue radio, where models such as the Roberts Revival and Bose Wave radio have stayed in production for twenty years and more with few and gradual changes. Paul |
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1st Jul 2018, 7:58 pm | #6 |
Triode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 24
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Re: Production durations
I now own four old radios:
Philips 274A: released 1934, my example has a date stamp on the capacitor block of Feb 1934 Philips 588a: released 1934, my example no idea Philips 462A: released 1947, my example had an electrolytic with a 1946 date stamp so probably sold in 1947 Bush VHF 62: released 1956, I have the original receipt from January 1958, so probably manufactured 1957 The only other old radio I have known was my parents' KB Minuet: released 1957; theirs was a wedding present in January 1959 so was probably built in 1958. It seems striking to me that of the four where there is some evidence they were all made either in the year of initial release or the year after. Ed |
1st Jul 2018, 9:04 pm | #7 |
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Re: Production durations
It's true that most models only stayed in production for a year or so. Many of the successor models were very similar to their predecessors under the skin though. There's only so many changes you can ring on the basic AA5 design.
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1st Jul 2018, 9:34 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
New models even if a slightly modified chassis were usually brought of for the Autumn Winter selling season.
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Frank |
2nd Jul 2018, 1:00 am | #9 |
Nonode
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Re: Production durations
It’s something of a paradox that whilst production durations for many items of hi-fi equipment are reasonably findable, it is not the case for domestic radio receivers.
For example, I am curious as to how long the early 1950s higher performance bandspread export models, such as the Ekco A182, Murphy TA160 and Pye PE80 stayed in production. None of these appeared to have had direct successors, so I imagine that they would have remained available through the 1950s, when there was still an apparent market for this type of receiver. Evidence for the latter assertion is that some setmakers, such as Ambassador and K-B, introduced new (or significantly revised) bandspread export models in the second half of the 1950s. Also, how long did the better early FM-AM and FM-only receivers, such as the Ekco A277 and C273, and the Pye FenMan II, stay in production? In the case of the FenMan II, its counterpart hi-fi tuner, the HFT111, appears to have lasted until sometime in 1960. It was last listed in Hi Fi Year Book (HFYB) 1960, along with a preliminary entry for what became the HFT113, which looks to have been a step downwards. So conceivably the FenMan II may also have lasted until 1960. By then the market for that type of receiver may have been dwindling, although the Hacker Mayflower (1962 onwards, I think) indicates that there was still at least a remnant market for receivers intended for those who wanted to listen to programme content. Possibly production durations could be derived from Wireless and Electrical Trader Year Book entries, at least if one had a full set for the years at interest, but these seem to be quite scarce, more so than say the HFYB series. Cheers, |
2nd Jul 2018, 2:15 am | #10 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
Quote:
Also the BX462A is a nice example of a slightly longer than normal production run with some interesting complications. 1946: start of production at Philips 1947/1948: production at Van der Heem alongside the Erres sister model KY465 (same chassis, wooden cabinet) 1949: production back to Philips, adoption of the outdated design to newer parts, model BX462A-01 1950?? end of production |
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2nd Jul 2018, 2:18 am | #11 |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
On the topic of production durations in general: I enter every Philips set (and a few others) I encounter in my database, preferrably with date codes. I think this is the only way to find out about production runs.
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2nd Jul 2018, 6:57 am | #12 |
Triode
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire, UK.
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Re: Production durations
Maarten,
The Trader sheet for the 462A gives a release date of March 1947. Ed |
3rd Jul 2018, 8:03 pm | #13 |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
In the Uk from the late-1920s through to the mid-1950s the big thing was the annual [with a break during WWII] "Radio Olympia" show, where manufacturers would reveal their new-season models.
http://www.orbem.co.uk/reg/olympia.htm https://www.nature.com/articles/164652a0 https://www.britishpathe.com/search/...ecord_keywords Manufacturers always tried to have something new to show, even if it was actually an old chassis in a new case. offering something looking like "the last year's radio/TV" would cost you big in future sales. (And some people have the cheek to object to the 'overnight obsolescence' of current smartphones/TVs). |
3rd Jul 2018, 10:27 pm | #14 |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
My old boss in the 60’s used to say, get the TV’s sold for Christmas and the radiograms just after New Year.
He was right, it usually followed that course with audio music centres taking the place of radio grams. Portable radios after Easter through summer, record players very often for birthdays so those always needed to be in stock. Everything was always in stock but levels were always determined by the season.
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Frank |
3rd Jul 2018, 11:01 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
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Re: Production durations
One of the old hands at Plessey who had been involved in the production lines that had manufactured consumer radios and TVs for third parties such as RGD and the Co-op, said that the TV production line only used to make a profit for the 3 months after the annual Olympia radio show, but it made so much profit during those 3 months that it was worth keeping it ticking over for the remaining 9 months.
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6th Jul 2018, 10:01 am | #16 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hampshire, UK.
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Re: Production durations
B&O's 'colouradio' Beolit range, although out of period, deserves a small mention here. Introduced in 1971 as the Beolit 400 (FM) and 600 (AM/FM), essentially the same radio was still in the catalogue in 1980 as the Beolit 505 and 707. By they they'd ruined the cabinet with black anodising on the metalwork and Nextel paint on the plastic parts and made the built-in mains unit a standard feature (previously seen only on models 500 and 700) but really hardly anything had changed. Germanium output transistors in a new set from a respectable brand as late as this? Still the best looking (and best performing) set in its class though.
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11th Jul 2018, 9:56 pm | #17 |
Nonode
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gloucester, Glos. UK.
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Re: Production durations
The Realistic Flavoradio was in production from 1972 to 1986 without any changes in style or innards , the only differences being were upto 11 different colours available .
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