Compiling a list of SC/MP Project Boards

[SiriusHardware]

While we are flagging up various SC/MP (and related) projects I remembered that there is also DavidMS's Pi Pico opto-input loader (which, like some earlier uploaders, works by 'typing' the code into the MK14 at high speed through connections to the external keypad connector).

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=197465

This one just about meets Craig's threshold because there are gerbers for one version of the project PCB linked to in post #34 of that thread which also contains some documentation.

There are some small errors on this version of the PCB, some of which were already compensated for by changing the support (CircuitPython) code - one remaining error is that the output connections to the MK14 reset circuit are swapped, not in the order intended. Otherwise it's fine and in fact I have a working example of this version of the PCB built up myself. DavidMS had planned to post corrected Gerbers but to the best of my knowledge never got around to it, and we don't seem to have seen him here for a while now.

For visitors from the USA it's worth pointing out that the various 'keypad injection' loaders - ones which work by using optocouplers to 'press' the keys of the MK14 and 'type' the code in at high speed - can potentially also be used with the National Introkit (+ keypad and display addon) because the Introkit's monitor / OS and the early MK14 monitor / OS are byte for byte identical. The typing 'speed' would probably have to be slowed down since the Introkit (I think) used a slower clock.

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

While we are flagging up various SC/MP (and related) projects I remembered that there is also DavidMS's Pi Pico opto-input loader (which, like some earlier uploaders, works by 'typing' the code into the MK14 at high speed through connections to the external keypad connector).

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=197465
>>
>>
The typing 'speed' would probably have to be slowed down since the Introkit (I think) used a slower clock.

Yes, The Introkit's PMOS SC/MP only ran at upto half the machine-cycle frequency of the later NMOS SC/MP-(II).
With the Introkit's 1MHz crystal divided by 2 in the PMOS SC/MP, for a 2us machine-cycle time.
Whereas MK14's 4MHz crystal is divided by 4 in the NMOS SC/MP-II INS8060 to give a 1us machine-cycle.

And as (the alternative to KITBUG) SCMPKB (=SCIOS-1) on the Introkit lacks any ability to load from cassette etc, then (in order to keep OS original) a keypad-based loader would be useful. All the Keyboard/Display connections are via a 0.1" pitch connector
- So could be connected-to / intercepted fairly-easily.
And I've thought of doing this in order to make entering of a program easier / quicker, when demoing it.

[SiriusHardware]

I'm not sure if DavidMS's 'port' to the Pico (from the original Raspberry Pi version) includes support for the code entry keystroke sequence used by the 'old' OS, otherwise now referred to as SCMPKB / SCIOS 1.

It was briefly discussed in the thread linked to in #81 but I don't remember whether he added support, as he couldn't really see why anyone would use the 'old' MK14 OS if they could use the revised / new version. My view was that anyone who wanted to use the loader with an original MK14 might still have 'old' OS PROMs in it and not want to change out those original parts.

The original Pi version of the keypad injection loader project:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=151851

...definitely does support the old Early MK14 / National Introkit OS keystroke sequence although you have to change one character in one line of the 'send14' python script to switch that on.

You could also, of course, run the 'new' MK14 OS in the Introkit (+ keypad + display) and it would improve the user experience and facilities (such as cassette interface support) in the same way that it did on the MK14 but then the Introkit would no longer be fully original.

[ortek_service]

Well hardware-wise these keypad loaders would work OK, with early OS.
So it should be just a matter of running the right software, to work with SCMPKB / SCIOS-1.

And presumably the Pico version has the source code available, so you could probably create a (forked on github?) version yourself, if necessary, adding the code from the original RPi version?
Or maybe just run that on an RPi-Zero? (that isn't too much larger than the Pico).

[SiriusHardware]

The code / settable variable to allow you to pick the OS entry mode a few lines into the code might still be in there, I think the suggestion was that DavidMS might include the option to set its value from the UI presented on the LCD so you didn't have to edit the Python code to change the OS - entry mode.

It was DavidMS's project / effort at the time so I didn't immediately set about making 'refinements' to it - it did seem as though he was intending to polish it a bit more himself.

I actually always did / do run the Pi version on a Pi Zero - see video linked to in post #17 of the pi-uploader thread - although I tested it with a 'big' Pi 3 as well. The main difference is that while a Pi, even a Zero, needs all the usual life support like a PSU / keyboard / mouse / display, DavidMS's Pico 'spin' of the project had its own display and navigation buttons on board so it could be used standalone, making it especially useful for loading demo code at exhibitions. It could easily be run from a small phone charging 'USB power pack' to keep it really independent and portable.

[SiriusHardware]

Nibbler Workalike v0.9 Build and ROM files:

Sorry HelloWorld - I missed that you had posted this until now - thanks for all your efforts to collate information and revive this old project.

[Phil__G]

Just to clarify my jumbled braincells, this scios1 keying thing, we're talking about the MEM/TERM/MEM thing yes?

[SiriusHardware]

this scios1 keying thing, we're talking about the MEM/TERM/MEM thing...?

That would be Yes. (Actually, TERM, MEM, TERM, but that's splitting hairs...)

Five keystrokes needed for entry of each byte, as opposed to three for entry of each byte when using the 'new' MK14 OS (Scios 2 / Scios 3)

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

The code / settable variable to allow you to pick the OS entry mode a few lines into the code might still be in there, I think the suggestion was that DavidMS might include the option to set its value from the UI presented on the LCD so you didn't have to edit the Python code to change the OS - entry mode.

It was DavidMS's project / effort at the time so I didn't immediately set about making 'refinements' to it - it did seem as though he was intending to polish it a bit more himself.

I actually always did / do run the Pi version on a Pi Zero - see video linked to in post #17 of the pi-uploader thread - although I tested it with a 'big' Pi 3 as well. The main difference is that while a Pi, even a Zero, needs all the usual life support like a PSU / keyboard / mouse / display, DavidMS's Pico 'spin' of the project had its own display and navigation buttons on board so it could be used standalone, making it especially useful for loading demo code at exhibitions. It could easily be run from a small phone charging 'USB power pack' to keep it really independent and portable.

Thanks for the further-info about this.
Well if the Pico one does have an external UI Display, then maybe it might not be too difficult to add a config-option on that (Or maybe just toggle a spare GPIO input, to set this?).
You should also be able to run the RPi-Zero 'Baremetal' / autoboot, from its SD card and with an external UI display plus power it from a USB PowerBank.

[SiriusHardware]

A Raspberry Pi version of the uploader with say a touchscreen 'hat' and GUI would require some actual enthusiasm, work, and worst of all, knowledge on my part.

I've pretty much parked that project where it is now and will leave it alone as long as it keeps working as intended - if anyone ever manages to find a reproducible bug in it I will consider it my duty to fix it, but otherwise I'm going to let it lie.

Someone who knows what they are doing might be able to make the necessary edits to DavidMS's ported-to-Pico version of the project code so that the already existing UI lets you choose whether to output the keypresses in Old OS or New OS format. That was what I hoped he might do himself.

[Timbucus]

One other we have missed in the above I think is the Miniscamp



https://messui.polygonal-moogle.com/comp/miniscamp.pdf

With a link to the board here:

https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/Miniscamp_II_main_PCB.html

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

Sorry HelloWorld - I missed that you had posted this until now - thanks for all your efforts to collate information and revive this old project.

Thanks, it has been an interesting project.

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by Timbucus

One other we have missed in the above I think is the Miniscamp

Attachment 318548

https://messui.polygonal-moogle.com/comp/miniscamp.pdf

With a link to the board here:

https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/Miniscamp_II_main_PCB.html

I added this to the list, has anyone here actually built one to confirm it works as expected?

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by Timbucus

We shouldn't forget the SCRUMPI http://scrumpi.uk

I am not clear from looking at the site... are they offering a reproduction SCRUMPI board or build files?

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

What about the 'issue VII' spin of Slothie's replica PCB, the one which was relaid for proper Cherry Key switches? Do we have a link to that one?

i may have missed the final answer, but was there a VII board without some of the earlier issues?

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by Timbucus

You have the UC1003 also recreated by philopat https://forum.system-cfg.com/viewtopic.php?t=12448

added

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by Phil__G

Are we including magazine builds? Theres the "Skip" on page 79:
file:///C:/public/phil/scmp/Kilobaud_Microcomputing_1979_March.pdf

i wasn't planning on magazine builds but i added a section for them. then i expanded the section for builds that we are not sure if they are active/available or status unknown.

I would like to move any projects that have unknown status moved to the bottom.... i just don't know which belong where and do not want to guess too much.

[SiriusHardware]

i may have missed the final answer, but was there a VII board without some of the earlier issues?

Slothie's issue VI in its final version (the version you already know about and have featured on your page) had no technical or operational 'issues' at all which was quite incredible as Slothie never had the opportunity to test an example himself before he made the files publicly available so that we could try it out. We had some PCBS made, Tim and myself built one each and they just worked, no fixes or mods needed. We know of at least a few more which have been built since then.

The issue VI PCB did however have some minor 'cosmetic' issues, such as:-

-The orientation of the ICs is not indicated as well as it could have been by the screen printing, with pin 1 being designated by a small 'indent' in the pin-1 corner rather than a more conspicuous U-shaped notch at one end. With the PCB in its logical 'portrait' orientation with the keypad at the bottom, all of the ICs without exception go in with their pin 1 end / notched end pointing to the left.

-The screen printing for the position of the the axial electrolytic next to the reset button does not have its polarity / orientation indicated. (The negative end goes next to the switch).

-The component type and component numbers for the IC to the immediate left of the display are jumbled up together in the screen printing - it should be a 74LS365.

The above are the only 'issues' I'm aware of with the issue VI - in other words purely cosmetic ones.

However, because Slothie had made the design files freely available, someone then took the issue VI, possibly corrected the above screen printing errors and also re-laid the keypad section so that it could accept actual Cherry keyboard switches, and called that modified version the 'issue VII'.

However, I don't know if he made the files for that redesigned version publicly available. I think Tim would be the person to ask.

[Phil__G]

Agreed, I've built three Slothie (Ian Rolfe) issue 6 boards, two with original components and one with the Martin.cz 2764/6264 carrier, all work perfectly as designed.
The Cherry key mods were done by Ian Lockhart ( ijl_Bitsa on here ) and I dont know why but so far Ian hasnt yet released the gerbers. Perhaps he's waiting for a few more to be built to confirm that everything is correct?

[Timbucus]

Originally Posted by HelloWorld

I am not clear from looking at the site... are they offering a reproduction SCRUMPI board or build files?

Unfortunately I have now run out of the batch of boards we had made and have not been able to get hold of Phil (I hope he is OK) to get more or the Gerbers. I think it may need a redo of the schematic and board layout but, the images of the final PCB included in the book do not preclude anyone doing that, its just a lot of work.

I do want to do the SCRUMPI 2 next and hope to make that more readily available.