Warning fake components - Page 3 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

spamfritter · 25th Dec 2015, 4:32 pm

Re fuses that don't fail correctly. If you look at the spec of fuses and MCB's they not only have the marked rating / failure current on them but they are also specified as to how much fault current they can actually break and go open circuit. A lot of older fuses / MCB's are rated to break up to 6000 amps and then go O/C. If the fault level is higher then they can run into problems particularly if the incoming supply fuse to the property is a bit slow. The vapourised metal of the fuse coats the case and thus forming a new conductive path, and, coupled with the gas plasma that exists the arc may re establish and then the bang gets serious. The incoming supply to a house is theoretically capable of delivering a fault current of up to 15,000 amps ! I received a warning from a well known and respected supplier a few years ago regarding a batch of 6 amp type B MCB's which had been supplied to them in good faith. They originated from a dodgy overseas faker and they could catch fire and probably would not operate correctly. So, they are still at it and will continue to as we don't check everything that comes into the country.

Pat Pending · 25th Dec 2015, 10:08 pm

My "bread and butter" work, is installing and maintaining industrial power control gear, and I occasionally come across old equipment that need a 2N3055 replaced, (pass transistor or servo output ect.) Under my bench I keep some ancient computer 5v linear PSU's with Motorola devices that act as donors as the "new" ones have recently all been c

p. We've also had some X2 caps from a "reputable" supplier that have detonated! (They have light blue moulded cases and been marked "CC capacitor"), all we've had back from the supplier is that we must have installed them incorrectly! Regards. Andy.

TonyDuell · 5th Jan 2016, 10:32 pm

Incindentally, I am pretty sure a high street shop not too far from me is selling fake fuses. Branded Bussmann (who are a well respected manufacturer), but I am sure they are not. They do not have the sand filling for one thing.

I would report said issue to the appropriate people if only I could find out how to do it!

dseymo1 · 5th Jan 2016, 10:41 pm

I'm sure Trading Standards would be willing to look into it.
I believe they have specialist technical departments if it needs anything more than just checking with Bussman.

stevehertz · 6th Jan 2016, 8:50 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyDuell

Incindentally, I am pretty sure a high street shop not too far from me is selling fake fuses. Branded Bussmann (who are a well respected manufacturer), but I am sure they are not. They do not have the sand filling for one thing.

The fake Bussman fuses is well known and has been going on for donkey's years.

G6Tanuki · 6th Jan 2016, 8:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseymo1

I'm sure Trading Standards would be willing to look into it.
I believe they have specialist technical departments if it needs anything more than just checking with Bussman.

Unless you've been personally injured, I really doubt Trading Standards could be bothered. Local authorities don't waste money on speculative investigations these days.

[If you've suffered a personal loss/injury a 'no win no fee' legal firm is the best approach]

6th Jan 2016, 10:29 pm

Re trading standards, I got a radio (2m/70cm handheld transceiver) with a lithium charger that merrily fed 5V to the cell depending on the safety circuit of the cell to stop the charging. Very naughty in its self, along with that the charger came with an adaptor for 13A sockets (one of those you can plug anything in here types that are leathal) despite that all UK supplied mains stuff has to have a 13A plug on it.

I got an appointment with the local trading standards department and pointed out the failings, who, after a while, said "we have no reason to take action". What's the point of rules and regulations

?

PJL · 7th Jan 2016, 4:56 pm

I pointed out to a global PC supplier that the powered speakers they supplied had a 13A fuse in the plug and the cable was only fit for about 3A. No response to that either.

ms660 · 7th Jan 2016, 5:00 pm

Not to mention the battery within battery trick.

Lawrence.

Refugee · 7th Jan 2016, 5:33 pm

There are those items that are either unobtainium or unsafe. There is a workaround.
Those slightly oversize promotional tobacco tins that some 50g packs came in are just the right size to act as a fire safety container for charging those dodge E-cig batteries. The best ones don't have hinges on the lid so that you can stand the tin in the lid to give the deck top double steel protection.
Always use a 500ma limited USB charger and not a non approved wall wart.

Valve'n'vinyl · 7th Jan 2016, 10:37 pm

As regards to 'Fake' fuses I tend to get genuine 1960's MK / ever ready fuses out of vintage scrap equipment . Sounds penny pinching but I was scared to death when I watched a Panorama programme about distribution boards that were marked with MK and were knock offs from China IDENTICAL in every way . The programme showed plugs and boards literally exploding and not behaving as expected . I would rather trust a fuse that has been in an old appliance than anything new . I have an adequate stash of these now and I gave a dozen MK's to a friend who works at university to test to destruction VS new MK fuses as a project a couple of years back , the tests came back well within spec and the modern ones seemed to be chopping out at 15-16amp one at 22 amp ...Not good ! So , I put my faith in the oldies .

Welsh Anorak · 8th Jan 2016, 12:01 am

You can't always blame the consumer. We had an insurance claim for lightning damage to a Microsoft X-box 'house brick' power unit. Gone bang, so a new one was required. All around £15, many trumpeting every CE and BS mark you could think of - and all fake. I refused to supply one of these and eventually sourced one (with difficulty) from Germany. Identical in all respects except price - over £60 - but I can sleep at night. So can the customer - it appears that the fake's fan sounds like a tractor!

Andrew B · 14th Jan 2016, 1:37 am

Hi all

I found this while "creeping around the net", as you do.

Quote:

The old warning about taking wooden nickels has returned in electronic guise: beware of counterfeit radio tubes! Every trade has its own kind of crooks. Electronics' contribution to the criminal roster is the fly-by-night dealer who buys up old, defective tubes for next to nothing, forges a new brand on them, and sells them at "bargain prices."

http://www.rfcafe.com/references/pop...lectronics.htm

Enjoy the read.

73

Andrew

jimmc101 · 4th Dec 2016, 9:29 pm

Anyone taken a punt on the AD8307s from China at 5 for £1.30 for the SO8 package?
A complete module is available for £12 but does require some work to be usable, see http://owenduffy.net/blog/?p=7559

Jim

Radio Wrangler · 4th Dec 2016, 11:41 pm

I'd be very wary. I subscribe to the view that if something seems to be too good to be true, it probably is.

There was a typo in my last postAD8307 is what I meant, my fault, sorry.

I got burned with fake AD parts (AD811 video amps) in a former job. They'd been procured by a major global sub-contract board assemble.

David

Bazz4CQJ · 4th Dec 2016, 11:47 pm

Well this is embarrassing.. I am currently waiting for a pack of 10 AD8307 from China for which I paid something like £2.30 with free P&P

B

Terry_VK5TM · 5th Dec 2016, 2:03 am

I have bought AD8307's out of China and they were all OK.

The circuit in the original post is from 73 magazine, December 1973 page 53 - Sensitive RF Voltmeter.

Available on the 'net if you google it.

Terry

Herald1360 · 5th Dec 2016, 2:05 am

£2-30 isn't that embarrassing

I wonder what they'll be?

MrBungle · 5th Dec 2016, 7:57 am

Might be lucky. It's a 50/50 on that sort of thing. The least likely to be genuine thing so far I found was MOSFETs. Ids of 20A? More like 500mA.

Craig Sawyers · 5th Dec 2016, 9:04 am

I've been burned too many times with fake Chinese silicon - either from China, or from UK based outlets who import Chinese fakes.

Worst ones (obsolete) were:

2SC3675, a high voltage NPN (Vceo 900V). The rubbish I bought broke down at 500V and annihilated every other bit of silicon in the design.

2SJ74/2SK170 low-noise JFETs. The supplied transistors had completely the wrong Idss and Vp, so could not possibly be the real deal.

After those I swore I would never again buy from China via auction sites or from one particular UK supplier.

As MrBungle said - it is a real lottery buying silicon from oriental sources.

Craig

25th Dec 2015, 4:32 pm	#41
spamfritter Pentode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Braintree Essex UK. Posts: 217	Re: Warning fake components Re fuses that don't fail correctly. If you look at the spec of fuses and MCB's they not only have the marked rating / failure current on them but they are also specified as to how much fault current they can actually break and go open circuit. A lot of older fuses / MCB's are rated to break up to 6000 amps and then go O/C. If the fault level is higher then they can run into problems particularly if the incoming supply fuse to the property is a bit slow. The vapourised metal of the fuse coats the case and thus forming a new conductive path, and, coupled with the gas plasma that exists the arc may re establish and then the bang gets serious. The incoming supply to a house is theoretically capable of delivering a fault current of up to 15,000 amps ! I received a warning from a well known and respected supplier a few years ago regarding a batch of 6 amp type B MCB's which had been supplied to them in good faith. They originated from a dodgy overseas faker and they could catch fire and probably would not operate correctly. So, they are still at it and will continue to as we don't check everything that comes into the country.

25th Dec 2015, 10:08 pm	#42
Pat Pending Rest in Peace Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Kings Lynn, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 50	Re: Warning fake components My "bread and butter" work, is installing and maintaining industrial power control gear, and I occasionally come across old equipment that need a 2N3055 replaced, (pass transistor or servo output ect.) Under my bench I keep some ancient computer 5v linear PSU's with Motorola devices that act as donors as the "new" ones have recently all been cp. We've also had some X2 caps from a "reputable" supplier that have detonated! (They have light blue moulded cases and been marked "CC capacitor"), all we've had back from the supplier is that we must have installed them incorrectly! Regards. Andy.

5th Jan 2016, 10:32 pm	#43
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,208	Re: Warning fake components Incindentally, I am pretty sure a high street shop not too far from me is selling fake fuses. Branded Bussmann (who are a well respected manufacturer), but I am sure they are not. They do not have the sand filling for one thing. I would report said issue to the appropriate people if only I could find out how to do it!

5th Jan 2016, 10:41 pm	#44
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Warning fake components I'm sure Trading Standards would be willing to look into it. I believe they have specialist technical departments if it needs anything more than just checking with Bussman.

6th Jan 2016, 10:29 pm	#47
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Warning fake components Re trading standards, I got a radio (2m/70cm handheld transceiver) with a lithium charger that merrily fed 5V to the cell depending on the safety circuit of the cell to stop the charging. Very naughty in its self, along with that the charger came with an adaptor for 13A sockets (one of those you can plug anything in here types that are leathal) despite that all UK supplied mains stuff has to have a 13A plug on it. I got an appointment with the local trading standards department and pointed out the failings, who, after a while, said "we have no reason to take action". What's the point of rules and regulations?

7th Jan 2016, 4:56 pm	#48
PJL Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 5,997	Re: Warning fake components I pointed out to a global PC supplier that the powered speakers they supplied had a 13A fuse in the plug and the cable was only fit for about 3A. No response to that either.

7th Jan 2016, 5:00 pm	#49
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Warning fake components Not to mention the battery within battery trick. Lawrence.

7th Jan 2016, 5:33 pm	#50
Refugee Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 5,553	Re: Warning fake components There are those items that are either unobtainium or unsafe. There is a workaround. Those slightly oversize promotional tobacco tins that some 50g packs came in are just the right size to act as a fire safety container for charging those dodge E-cig batteries. The best ones don't have hinges on the lid so that you can stand the tin in the lid to give the deck top double steel protection. Always use a 500ma limited USB charger and not a non approved wall wart.

7th Jan 2016, 10:37 pm	#51
Valve'n'vinyl Pentode Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Scarborough , North Riding of Yorkshire Posts: 202	Re: Warning fake components As regards to 'Fake' fuses I tend to get genuine 1960's MK / ever ready fuses out of vintage scrap equipment . Sounds penny pinching but I was scared to death when I watched a Panorama programme about distribution boards that were marked with MK and were knock offs from China IDENTICAL in every way . The programme showed plugs and boards literally exploding and not behaving as expected . I would rather trust a fuse that has been in an old appliance than anything new . I have an adequate stash of these now and I gave a dozen MK's to a friend who works at university to test to destruction VS new MK fuses as a project a couple of years back , the tests came back well within spec and the modern ones seemed to be chopping out at 15-16amp one at 22 amp ...Not good ! So , I put my faith in the oldies .

8th Jan 2016, 12:01 am	#52
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,921	Re: Warning fake components You can't always blame the consumer. We had an insurance claim for lightning damage to a Microsoft X-box 'house brick' power unit. Gone bang, so a new one was required. All around £15, many trumpeting every CE and BS mark you could think of - and all fake. I refused to supply one of these and eventually sourced one (with difficulty) from Germany. Identical in all respects except price - over £60 - but I can sleep at night. So can the customer - it appears that the fake's fan sounds like a tractor!

4th Dec 2016, 9:29 pm	#54
jimmc101 Heptode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 674	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please Anyone taken a punt on the AD8307s from China at 5 for £1.30 for the SO8 package? A complete module is available for £12 but does require some work to be usable, see http://owenduffy.net/blog/?p=7559 Jim

4th Dec 2016, 11:41 pm	#55
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,876	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please I'd be very wary. I subscribe to the view that if something seems to be too good to be true, it probably is. There was a typo in my last postAD8307 is what I meant, my fault, sorry. I got burned with fake AD parts (AD811 video amps) in a former job. They'd been procured by a major global sub-contract board assemble. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

4th Dec 2016, 11:47 pm	#56
Bazz4CQJ Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 4,935	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please Well this is embarrassing.. I am currently waiting for a pack of 10 AD8307 from China for which I paid something like £2.30 with free P&P B

5th Dec 2016, 2:03 am	#57
Terry_VK5TM Nonode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tintinara, South Australia, Australia Posts: 2,340	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please I have bought AD8307's out of China and they were all OK. The circuit in the original post is from 73 magazine, December 1973 page 53 - Sensitive RF Voltmeter. Available on the 'net if you google it. Terry

5th Dec 2016, 2:05 am	#58
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please £2-30 isn't that embarrassing I wonder what they'll be? __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

5th Dec 2016, 7:57 am	#59
MrBungle Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: London, UK. Posts: 3,687	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please Might be lucky. It's a 50/50 on that sort of thing. The least likely to be genuine thing so far I found was MOSFETs. Ids of 20A? More like 500mA.

5th Dec 2016, 9:04 am	#60
Craig Sawyers Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 4,984	Re: R.F. voltmeter: your thoughts, please I've been burned too many times with fake Chinese silicon - either from China, or from UK based outlets who import Chinese fakes. Worst ones (obsolete) were: 2SC3675, a high voltage NPN (Vceo 900V). The rubbish I bought broke down at 500V and annihilated every other bit of silicon in the design. 2SJ74/2SK170 low-noise JFETs. The supplied transistors had completely the wrong Idss and Vp, so could not possibly be the real deal. After those I swore I would never again buy from China via auction sites or from one particular UK supplier. As MrBungle said - it is a real lottery buying silicon from oriental sources. Craig