Philips Radio model 178M/15 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

hussam1979 · 20th Aug 2015, 10:16 pm

Welcome all
I bought a radio Philips Model 178M / 15 made in England, but I researched a lot on the internet I did not find like him.
Is it possible that one help me to learn more about.
Currently, his condition does not work and I want to fix it

AC/HL · 21st Aug 2015, 1:47 am

Hello Hussam, and welcome.
We'll need to know more about the fault symptoms. Are there any signs of life at all?
Some photographs may help, and brief details of your experience with fault finding.
Do you have a test meter?

Herald1360 · 21st Aug 2015, 1:29 pm

Is it anything like this?

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_178a.html

hussam1979 · 21st Aug 2015, 4:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/HL

Some photographs may help, and brief details of your experience with fault finding.

Thank you AC/HL
Thank you for your interest and this image

AC/HL · 21st Aug 2015, 8:58 pm

That's interesting, I always thought that the /15 suffix meant that it was made for the UK market. 40 Hz most certainly isn't, so it must be an export set, as is to be expected of course.
We still need to know what the symptoms are, is it completely dead?

Silicon · 21st Aug 2015, 10:49 pm

The bakelite cabinet looks identical to the Mullard MAS82/15 radio but the chassis is different. It may have been made in 1940.

What valves are fitted to the radio? I am guessing that it has ECH35, EF39, EBC33, EL33 and an AZ31 rectifier. The layout of components on the chassis is similar to the Philips E150A and E157A radios.

hussam1979 · 22nd Aug 2015, 5:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/HL

We still need to know what the symptoms are, is it completely dead?

I can not find words to thank You
thank You alot to you
this radio not work

AC/HL · 22nd Aug 2015, 9:17 pm

Yes, we understand that it doesn't work, but we need more information to help you.
When you switch it on, do the valves light up?
Do you have a test meter?

Heatercathodeshort · 22nd Aug 2015, 9:56 pm

Could ME on the chassis possibly refer to Middle East? J.

Maarten · 23rd Aug 2015, 3:41 am

It is highly unlikely that the /15 suffix was used for export destinations outside the UK. 40Hz is likely a typo (40W being right beneath it). If there really were areas with 40Hz mains, probably 25Hz or universal sets would have been exported to those areas.

Herald1360 · 23rd Aug 2015, 2:55 pm

40-60Hz wasn't unusual for a mains frequency spec.
Essentially it means a slightly bigger TX than needed for 50Hz minimum. Within reason, the HF limit is relatively flexible, as in a 40Hz TX is fine at 60Hz, but a 60Hz cost conscious design would run hot at 50Hz and even hotter at 40Hz.

Nickthedentist · 23rd Aug 2015, 3:26 pm

The fact that "40" is printed on the chassis too does, to me, suggest that 40Hz on the ratings plate was more than a typo.

Silicon · 23rd Aug 2015, 11:04 pm

In 1946 40Hz mains was still being used in Egypt and parts of the UK.

Libya had areas using 42Hz and 45Hz mains.

Maarten · 24th Aug 2015, 1:07 am

I stand corrected on the 40Hz mains not being used. Very interesting. In any case the set got to Egypt, even if it probably wasn't intended for export.

Back to fault finding: @hussam1979; what previous experience or knowledge on electronics do you have?

hussam1979 · 24th Aug 2015, 8:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/HL

Yes, we understand that it doesn't work, but we need more information to help you.

I will send pictures to you help me repair

hussam1979 · 27th Aug 2015, 10:28 pm

tube in Radio

EF39-CV31-CCh35-EBC33-KT71

My radio is similar Philips E150A

Silicon · 29th Aug 2015, 2:41 pm

It is very possible that some of the valves in your radio are the wrong type.

The EF39, CCH35 and EBC33 valves have a heater current of 0.2 Amps and can be wired in series. They are often used with the CL33 output pentode and the CY31 rectifier which also have 0.2Amp heater current.

The CV31 has a 4 Volt 3 Amp filament and a B4 valve base. It is almost certainly the wrong valve for your radio and may damage it.

The KT71 has a heater current of 0.16 amps at 48 Volts and is not suitable for your radio.

If your radio has been modified by previous owners it may require a skilled repairer to fix it.

TonyDuell · 29th Aug 2015, 5:38 pm

I wonder if CV31 was a misreading of CY31

Silicon · 29th Aug 2015, 6:15 pm

If the other valve is a KT61 (and not a KT71) the radio may have suitable valves.

The KT61 is an near equivalent to the EL33. It should work with the existing cathode resistor.

TonyDuell · 29th Aug 2015, 7:47 pm

Looking at the photo of the chassis, it appears there is a mains transformer. This suggests the valve heaters, at least of the signal valves, are in parallel, and are probably 6.3V. In which case isn't the CCH35 suspect?

Philips did use 4V filament rectifiers in some radios, AZ1 and AZ31, for example. So perhaps the CV31 is right. Can the OP please confirm it is a 4 pin base, not octal.

20th Aug 2015, 10:16 pm	#1
hussam1979 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Giza, Egypt Posts: 10	Philips Radio model 178M/15 Welcome all I bought a radio Philips Model 178M / 15 made in England, but I researched a lot on the internet I did not find like him. Is it possible that one help me to learn more about. Currently, his condition does not work and I want to fix it

21st Aug 2015, 1:47 am	#2
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,643	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 Hello Hussam, and welcome. We'll need to know more about the fault symptoms. Are there any signs of life at all? Some photographs may help, and brief details of your experience with fault finding. Do you have a test meter?

21st Aug 2015, 1:29 pm	#3
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 Is it anything like this? http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_178a.html __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

21st Aug 2015, 8:58 pm	#5
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,643	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 That's interesting, I always thought that the /15 suffix meant that it was made for the UK market. 40 Hz most certainly isn't, so it must be an export set, as is to be expected of course. We still need to know what the symptoms are, is it completely dead?

21st Aug 2015, 10:49 pm	#6
Silicon Nonode Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Coulsdon, London, UK. Posts: 2,171	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 The bakelite cabinet looks identical to the Mullard MAS82/15 radio but the chassis is different. It may have been made in 1940. What valves are fitted to the radio? I am guessing that it has ECH35, EF39, EBC33, EL33 and an AZ31 rectifier. The layout of components on the chassis is similar to the Philips E150A and E157A radios.

22nd Aug 2015, 9:17 pm	#8
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,643	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 Yes, we understand that it doesn't work, but we need more information to help you. When you switch it on, do the valves light up? Do you have a test meter?

22nd Aug 2015, 9:56 pm	#9
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 Could ME on the chassis possibly refer to Middle East? J.

23rd Aug 2015, 3:41 am	#10
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,203	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 It is highly unlikely that the /15 suffix was used for export destinations outside the UK. 40Hz is likely a typo (40W being right beneath it). If there really were areas with 40Hz mains, probably 25Hz or universal sets would have been exported to those areas.

23rd Aug 2015, 2:55 pm	#11
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 40-60Hz wasn't unusual for a mains frequency spec. Essentially it means a slightly bigger TX than needed for 50Hz minimum. Within reason, the HF limit is relatively flexible, as in a 40Hz TX is fine at 60Hz, but a 60Hz cost conscious design would run hot at 50Hz and even hotter at 40Hz. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

23rd Aug 2015, 3:26 pm	#12
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,865	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 The fact that "40" is printed on the chassis too does, to me, suggest that 40Hz on the ratings plate was more than a typo.

23rd Aug 2015, 11:04 pm	#13
Silicon Nonode Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Coulsdon, London, UK. Posts: 2,171	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 In 1946 40Hz mains was still being used in Egypt and parts of the UK. Libya had areas using 42Hz and 45Hz mains.

24th Aug 2015, 1:07 am	#14
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,203	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 I stand corrected on the 40Hz mains not being used. Very interesting. In any case the set got to Egypt, even if it probably wasn't intended for export. Back to fault finding: @hussam1979; what previous experience or knowledge on electronics do you have?

27th Aug 2015, 10:28 pm	#16
hussam1979 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Giza, Egypt Posts: 10	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 tube in Radio EF39-CV31-CCh35-EBC33-KT71 My radio is similar Philips E150A

29th Aug 2015, 2:41 pm	#17
Silicon Nonode Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Coulsdon, London, UK. Posts: 2,171	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 It is very possible that some of the valves in your radio are the wrong type. The EF39, CCH35 and EBC33 valves have a heater current of 0.2 Amps and can be wired in series. They are often used with the CL33 output pentode and the CY31 rectifier which also have 0.2Amp heater current. The CV31 has a 4 Volt 3 Amp filament and a B4 valve base. It is almost certainly the wrong valve for your radio and may damage it. The KT71 has a heater current of 0.16 amps at 48 Volts and is not suitable for your radio. If your radio has been modified by previous owners it may require a skilled repairer to fix it.

29th Aug 2015, 5:38 pm	#18
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 I wonder if CV31 was a misreading of CY31

29th Aug 2015, 6:15 pm	#19
Silicon Nonode Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Coulsdon, London, UK. Posts: 2,171	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 If the other valve is a KT61 (and not a KT71) the radio may have suitable valves. The KT61 is an near equivalent to the EL33. It should work with the existing cathode resistor.

29th Aug 2015, 7:47 pm	#20
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: Philips Radio model 178M/15 Looking at the photo of the chassis, it appears there is a mains transformer. This suggests the valve heaters, at least of the signal valves, are in parallel, and are probably 6.3V. In which case isn't the CCH35 suspect? Philips did use 4V filament rectifiers in some radios, AZ1 and AZ31, for example. So perhaps the CV31 is right. Can the OP please confirm it is a 4 pin base, not octal.