'The Story of the Marshall Amplifier'

[Chris G0EYO]

I watched the programme on catch up tv. Really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for the heads up
Regards
Chris G0EYO

[Dr-Watts]

It was a new film.
The BBC have been filming it on and off for the last 3 years or so.
All of the old amps in the program were repaired and teased back into life by yours truly and even my bench managed to sneak in on the film.
After 5 years working n the service department I still get a great deal of satisfaction from working there and still get excited when I get up to go to work.
Its a great place to work and still has a very family orientated feel. Everyone knows everyone and its nice to see things with valves in still getting built by hand.
The service department can fix anything from 1962 to now, with exception of one or two things that we no longer have transformers for. As senior service engineer j get to work on all of the old stinkers as well as the newer stuff...

[Nickthedentist]

Wow, that's interesting. So was it you using a rather unwieldy-looking soldering gun?

[G4XWDJim]

I recorded the programme and have just watched it. Very good. I was particularly impressed with the clever marketing ploy of having the volume control scale go up to 11 instead of the usual 10. Brilliant idea that really impressed its users.

I'm just off to design a 12 inch rule that goes up to 13. Will I make my fortune?

Jim

[Aub]

I was surprised by the claim of the first 100 watt guitar amp. I thought that accolade went to the VOX AC100?

Cheers

Aub

[ITAM805]

I believe it was, see here.

Also the programme failed to mention Bran and Craven's difficulty sourcing a 100W o/p tx, so they used two 50 watters! I happened to have had one of (if the not the first) production Marshall 100w PA's in my keep earlier this year. Perhaps Dr-Watts remembers working on it?

[avocollector]

Originally Posted by samjmann

Guitar amps seem to have some mythical sound that no one can quite quantify. It'd be good to look at an objective test with test equipment between a 'good' and 'bad' amp. I don't know how much of this is in peoples minds rather than reality.

As a guitarist since the late 60's who has used just about all types of amps and guitars, it really comes down to what sounds 'good/satisfying' to your ears and more importantly to the audience's. You cannot overlook the guitar involved and its pickups - for example Gibson Les Paul Humbucker models pair nicely with Marshalls for a distorted sound but don't go so well with most transistor/solid state models. I've heard it's because the valves/transformers emphasise the even harmonics while sold state emphasises the odd ones (our ears are not so keen on them) but there are any number of explanations.

In contrast the Fender Stratocaster/telecaster single coil pickups go very well with the Fender clean valve amps and even some transistor ones such as the Roland JC 120.

However while that's the general pattern, many examples break it. Joe Pass for example a Jazz guitarist used a transistor amp (Polytone) with his Gibson unlike most Jazzers who use valve amps - think David Gilmour did as well(?) but not sure.

The maker have been trying to convince guitarists for years now that their latest solid state is good as/better than the valve and IMHO make quite a credible case with the modelling amps and the Marshall valvestate series BUT guitarists in the main don't seem to want to follow and stick with valves thus sending the price of original NOS ones up.

As a sideline one of the more amusing scams we've seen over here in NZ was a special liquid being sold at some huge cost to gullible guitarists - the idea was you 'painted' your integrated circuits in the solid state amp with this juice and it would make them sound like valves!

[Dr-Watts]

Problem is ITAM805 is that I see so many amps its hard to nail one down.
Phil Wells usually deals with the rare and usual amps that come in. He has been there 37 years and has seen it all in that time.
I may have been off that day as earlier this year I was still up and down to Adenbrookes as regular as clockwork.
The mains socket is certainly not original. As Bulgin sockets are no longer classed as 'safe', IEC sockets have to be fitted. This is a massive shame as they don't look great and you have to file out the rear panel in order to make them fit.
Interesting design though !
And no, that was not me with the soldering gun. My god, did people seriously use them in electronics...
My bench was behind Phil by the wndow towards the end of the film.

[Aub]

Originally Posted by ITAM805

I believe it was, see here.

That page says that they had used Marshall 4 x 12 stacks, but doesn't mention 100w amps. It also says that the Beatles used the AC100 in mid 1964. I'd be surprised if there was a Marshall 100w amp before then.

Cheers

Aub

[ITAM805]

hi Aub, yes I meant it was as you said, Vox AC-100 preceded the Marshall Super series, although the first paragraph in that link is a little confusing!

But the Vox were unreliable and just not loud enough. My sister saw the Beatles at the Lewisham Odeon (my mum wouldn't let me go ) and she remembers not being able to hear a thing above the chorus of screaming teenagers! I owned an AC50 top which packed a punch but don't think it was even as loud as my 1965 AC30 that I still own, but that would be overpowered up against a drummer and bass at full tilt. This all changed with the arrival of my 1968 Marshall 100W plexi though, the drummer used to ask me to turn down

[Aub]

Sorry i mis-read you. As you say, the VOX was unreliable. I believe the O/P transformer was suspect, especially in the earlier AC100. Nice to be able to out volume a drummer!

Cheers

Aub

[Diabolical Artificer]

Great programme, obviously they can't go into all the technical details in such a short programme. There is a video tour of a tour of the Marshall factory on Utube that goes into more detail.

As a guitar player I can testify to Marshall amps being special, they just sound "right ". Look at the schematic of a JTM 45 and it's not really that different to a Vox or a Fender amp or the same era.

Andy.

[David G4EBT]

The factory tour is covered in two excellent youtube videos:

Part 1: 47 Minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeerxAO3oRU

Part 2: 30 Mins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhe7qXP08qw

I've watched some of part 1 - very interesting. I had a wry smile at the comment "the small components are placed on the PCB by auto-insertion - the larger ones are done "by the ladies". Not sure what 'equality and diversity' pundits would make of that remark! Great to see such a 'home grown' success story still holding its own in a global market place. Looking at the throughput of racks of PCBs, the number of units sold each year must be phenomenal.

Makes me wish I'd learnt to play the guitar - 'Sweet Child of Mine' riffs etc!

I note that there as firms such as 'Tube Depot' who market kits for 'JTM45 Plus' Amps and have 'how to' videos on youtube: "How To Build a British JTM 45 Plus":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6U08udfjMQ

Don't know if that's done in collaboration or under licence with Marshall's?

[dave walsh]

Excellent film and well up to the usual BBC4 standard but it was never going to be a factory tour doc, interesting as that is to us! I'm going to try and list all the BBC4 programs with significant technical content at some point. I never did meet Jim Marshall, who seems to have been an excellent person but I did get a place on the very new Electronics course [advertised in the Melody Maker] at the East End London School of Furniture, in 1966. This had been set up to train technicians for the new "Amp Industry" as shown. I went down there but due to financial and accomodation problems, didn't take it up in the end. Otherwise who knows?

Can't decide whether JimG4X is being ironic [p24] or hasn't seen Spinal Tap. It's quite funny either way
Dave W

[G4XWDJim]

Dave,

I think something was said in the programmes about Spinal Tap being very loud but I don't think I took it in so I'm a bit blank there. Maybe you could explain.

I thought adding a digit to the knob scale was a very good non technical method of making something louder. How far could they have taken it. Would 12 be louder still?

Jim

[dave walsh]

Hi Jim. You've sort of got it. Spinal Tap is a spoof Documentary re Heavy Metal Music but it's so convincing [like The Rutles [Beatles] or A Mighty Wind [US Folk Music] that it has been taken by many as real. The joke [re excess volume] is that the lead guitarist believes that making it go up to "11" will produce more noise and can't grasp that it doesn't change the output or increase it beyond "maximum". I thought you were spoofing the film in turn, with your ruler

You are right though that adding a digit is cheap and effective as long as the user BELIEVES it's louder. It's like HI Fi self delusion. I once saw some speaker fronts moulded to look as though they protected a massive Woofer/Mid Range and Tweeter but there was just one tiny LS unit there of Transistor Radio quality
Dave W

[G4XWDJim]

Audiophoolery to be capitalised on. I thought Spinal Tap was a real band. Huh, what do I know?

Jim

[m0cemdave]

Yes, they performed as a real band as a spin-off from the film, complete with many of the daft effects. The shows were a wonderful blend of heavy rock and comedy. At the one I worked on at the Royal Albert Hall they got Keith Emerson, who was in the audience, up to play the organ.

I haven't seen the Marshall documentary, but I was under the impression that the first amplifiers were designed and assembled in a garden shed/garage by some G3's, an arrangement that inevitably ended in the usual recriminations when production had to be put on a professional footing to keep up with demand.

[SteveCG]

Finally watched the TV programme. I found it informative to hear the musicians' viewpoint. In particular the issue of the guitarists wished-for 'sound' of the guitar, as well as the problem of filling a venue with that sound.

[ms660]

I heard somewhere that SRV used Marshall amps at some point, tried to find a video clip but no luck.

On this one I think he uses a Fender amp amongst others possibly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc5Bk6kBEIU

Lawrence.