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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 9th Dec 2017, 2:45 pm   #1
Ferro6owner
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Default Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

Hi all -

I came into possession of a series 6 machine last year as I'd wanted one for years and heard this one playing in a shop so that was that. It came with a collection of "bootleg" (I suppose) tapes from the 60's, almost all of which are classical and opera recorded directly from radio. One owner from new!

Anyway, it played and recorded perfectly for quite some time and then, alas, a problem arose. I noticed that when either recording or playing back it would switch off automatically, usually when the take-up spool was about one-third full of tape.

It appears that the take-up reel falters in its smooth winding-on of the tape for a split second. This is enough to let the tape 'sag' sufficiently for the small automatic stop arm to swing over and stop the machine.

Now, I'll freely admit that I know pretty much zero about the mechanics of these things. I did undo the thumbscrews and swing the entire deck upwards but could not see anything obviously broken - dangling wires, broken springs and suchlike - but frankly was daunted by the complexity of the mechanism (I would certainly do more harm than good I think!).

I believe the problem MAY be the tension on the tape reel - a slipping clutch? - and there seems to be some sort of tensioning adjustment screw near the take-up reel spindle. Does anyone know if this could be the problem and how to adjust this? If this is the sort of thing best left to Those Who Know, does anyone know of anyone in the Worcestershire/Midland area that could undertake this repair and a sympathetic overhaul of this machine?

I'm determined to have it put right but due to its weight I wouldn't dare to send it by courier but I can travel to deliver and pick up within a fairly reasonable distance.

Many thanks in anticipation!!
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 4:35 pm   #2
Phil G4SPZ
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

These machines actually have a separate motor driving each reel directly. The take-up reel motor is supplied with a limited amount of power during recording and playback, just sufficient to ensure the tape winds on smoothly. What you might find is that the tape guides and rollers need cleaning. Meths on a cotton bud is quite effective.

With no tape threaded, when switched to 'play' the take-up reel should spin up smoothly but quite quickly and rotate very fast, however if you manually slow down the reel it should exert a steady tension at every point in its revolution. If it tends to stick, look for a binding brake or lack of lubrication.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 4:18 am   #3
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

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Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
...or lack of lubrication.
That would be my guess. You could also switch the machine off but arrange to hold the "play" lever in position by a string or cord. When you 'flick" it with two fingers the take up platter should spin very freely. If it doesnt and it's not the brake binding, a few small drops of light oil applied carefully to the white felt pads of the top and bottom motor bearings will probably help matters. A special oiler or syringe can make it easier.

The other two motors are probably in need of a similar careful oiling of the felt pads.

Dont forget to remove the power cord from the mains before attempting this.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 6:35 am   #4
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

We should also add the standard warning about the audio amplifier coupling capacitor...

In just about everything which uses valves in an audio amplifier, there is at least one capacitor used to couple the audio signal from the preceding stage into the power output valve. Over time these capacitors tend to go leaky and as their job is to block the high DC voltage on the anode of the preceding stage from reaching the grid of the power valve, they cause the power valve to take higher and higher current.

The power output valve eventually fails, but the excessive current also overheats the output transformer and the power supply transformer. These transformers may be damaged by this.

The capacitors are cheap, tens of pennies and modern ones are much more reliable. Audio output valves are expensive because of the demand from hifi aficionados. Replacement transformers are hard to find, they can be re-wound, but it is labour intensive and expensive.

So, it's become standard practice to replace this critical capacitor before trouble happens, whenever anyone acquires a new piece of valved gear, unless they know it's already been done. It's such a standard job that it's become known hereabouts as that capacitor. All the regulars on this forum won't even power-up a 'new' radio/amp/recorder until they've checked or changed it.

If you need help, one of the Ferrograph regulars will no doubt talk you through changing it. If you're unsure about soldering, then you may need the help of someone nearby.
They're nice old machines and have quite a following.

David
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 5:37 pm   #5
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

Many thanks for the replies! Do you know anyone who services or overhauls these machines?
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 6:26 pm   #6
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

I would suggest you post in this section:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...play.php?f=145
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Old 13th Dec 2017, 11:26 pm   #7
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

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Originally Posted by Ferro6owner View Post
Many thanks for the replies! Do you know anyone who services or overhauls these machines?
I don't mind having a look at it for you if you can get it to me. Fixed a series 6 with motor problems recently and I can replace the suspect capacitors that have been mentioned by other respondents.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 12:48 pm   #8
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Default Take-up spool problem.

Hi to all.

I have a Ferrograph series 6 model 631 machine that's developed a small problem. When recording and playing back it will at times shut off automatically due to the take-up reel faltering. As can be imagined this is a bit annoying especially when recording! Fast forward/rewind is fine, there seems to be no problem with the capstan. The take-up reel does make a kind of scraping noise in operation, this at slow and fast wind speed. Having had a quick look it seems to be coming from the tape counter drive by I'm not sure and my technical knowledge is very limited. This machine worked perfectly when I got it a year or so ago and is otherwise in good cosmetic condition. It played wound and recorded perfectly at the time. It's had only one previous owner who purchased it in 1967.

Any hints would be welcome or does anyone know a repairer in the Worcester area?

Many thanks!
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 1:10 pm   #9
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

From the problem you describe it does look like the tape counter drive is binding. Check that the take-up spool hub is firmly locked to the motor spindle as the drive gear is part of this hub. If it has dropped then it may be pinching the gear that drives the counter cable.

Bill
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 1:33 pm   #10
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

Take up problems can be caused by dodgy tape namely sticky shed. I had an Akai which I thought had an issue, changed the tape no more problem. You could also try cleaning the tape path.

BTW i have a hard copy of The Ferrograph 6 series/631 manual, if any good to you I'm after a fiver for it. Drop me a PM if interested.

Andy.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 11:46 am   #11
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Default Re: Ferrograph Series 6 take-up reel(?) problem

My thanks to B ill in Wales for the offer of help. A guy named Ted in Kington has also offered help - as he's a lot closer I'll wait to see if he gets back to me. Otherwise it may well be a trip to the coast!
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 2:15 pm   #12
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Default Re: Take-up spool problem.

I know I'm a bit late here and this may well be fixed by now, but another possible problem is that, in being moved about, a jolt has slightly mis-aligned the motor bearing, causing it to bind. I few light sideways taps from the handle of a small hammer as you turn the hub can correct this, as the bearings are designed to self-align - but this often needs a bit of help!

PS the coupling capacitors mentioned earlier in this thread should not be a problem with a Series 6 as by about 1961-2, before this model came out, Ferrograph had switched to more reliable polyester capacitors that are usually still okay to this day.
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