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Old 12th Apr 2018, 11:12 am   #1
FERNSEH
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Default Philips 563A restoration.

The attachment shows the huge 7 Watt rating focus control employed in the Philips 563A. This receiver must be one of the most engineered TV sets ever made. Construction is more like mil spec than anything made for domestic use.

As big as the focus pot may be it's open circuit.

DFWB.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 11:44 am   #2
rogerdup
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hi David!
Nice set indeed! The black Philips capacitors I see on this set, looks same as those found in 193x broadcast receivers. Most of them remain unexpectedly good despite their age.
A lot of can electrolytic on this set needs a control and perhaps reforming..
Regards,
Roger

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Old 12th Apr 2018, 12:35 pm   #3
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hi Roger,
The picture of the Philips 563A/15. Even the cabinet is heavy, almost 15Kg! The cabinet of the pre-war model 2405 is similar.
The valvepage website:
http://www.thevalvepage.com/tvmanu/philips/philips.htm

DFWB.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 1:03 pm   #4
rogerdup
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hi David,
I have restored a similar set time ago. It was a Grammont 178B7 from 1949; standard 441 lines. Crt was MW36-22 round with no ion trap and so, classical ion burn at the center.
Also perhaps you don't know this Ducastel TV set from 1952 found in a garbage deposit and I completely restored. I spent funny time on it.
Crt is MW36-22 square. Have a huge main power transformer. weight around 15kg.
Mix of rimlock, octal and 7 pins tubes!
Regards,
Roger
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 2:58 pm   #5
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

David,

The focus pot in my 383A was also defective.
Fortunately the resistance wire track was still intact, only the wiper did not make contact in the center part of rotation. This could be repaired.
Let's hope it is something similar in the 563A.

Jac
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 3:12 pm   #6
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hello Jac,
It would be interesting to speculate what the valve types were employed in the pre-war model 2405.
I'd believe the chassis construction is similar to the 383A and 563A
I understand the 2405 employed the EE50 secondary emission valve in the vision IF amplifiers. The line output pentode an EL50? Other valves will be side contact types such as the ECH3, EL3 and EBL1. Post war octals ECH35, EL33 and EBL31. EB34 double diode, EB91 in post war sets.
Mains EHT in the 2405? CRT MW22-2.

DFWB.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 3:53 pm   #7
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hello David,

There is a very interesting article in the Philips Technical Review of Dec 1939 about the Philips sets, including the 2405.
It is too large to attach it here - I emailed it to you.

The EHT indeed was mains derived in the 2405.
In the 563A / 383A it is, as you pointed out, a voltage doubler taken from the anode of the line output valve. Must be one of the first to do this.

Unfortunately I have no circuit values or valve info of the 2405.
It had also a 2-part chassis, but of a completely different set-up.
Never seen one in the flesh....

Jac
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 8:38 pm   #8
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Those electrolytics look like the wet type.

They may have dried out now. Has anyone successfully added distilled water and reformed them?
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 9:51 pm   #9
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

"Those electrolytics look like the wet type.
They may have dried out now. Has anyone successfully added distilled water and reformed them?"

Hi Silicon,
Did try refilling wet electrolytics but with no success.
Hello Jac,
many thanks for sending the information about the 2405. Except for the frequency changer circuit there is very little else in common with the 1947 383A series. The EE50 secondary emission valve is employed in all the vision circuits including the common vision and sound RF amplifier. It's safe to say the two frequency changer valves are the type ECH3. Gas relays are employed as the timebase oscillators, possibly the Philips EC50. In it's rebased form, the EN31, the gas relay valve was used in the Bush TV1 and TV2.
The attachment shows the internals of the Philips 2405.
The EC50 gas relay tube: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ec50.html

DFWB.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 10:55 pm   #10
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hi David,
that looks like fun.
If you do find a dead spot on the focus pot and repair it, then a simple dodge to avoid the worn area (presumably were the optimum focus is obtained) is to reverse the connections to the control, though I'm sure it is dodge you have tried before

Cheers
Andy
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 11:19 pm   #11
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hi Andy,
it's not so simple. Rather than a simple variable resistor across the focus coil the circuit diagram shows the focus potentiometer is wired in such a manner so that the control shunts the focus coil over part of the arc and then turning the control further adds resistance in series with the coil.

This is going to be one of the most difficult vintage TV restorations I've ever encountered. The radio/TV switching is complex.

DFWB.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 7:30 am   #12
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Quote:
This is going to be one of the most difficult vintage TV restorations I've ever encountered. The radio/TV switching is complex.
Hi David,
It has been Philips habit of making complex/sophisticated mounting in radio as well as in TV, so I am not surprised by what you discovered in this one.
I am sure you will not give up anyway. The electrolytics can be reformed sometime as long as they don't have lost liquid. I have "saved" electrolytics in a 1932 SABA 521WL.
Good week-end to you all!
Regards,
Roger
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 2:03 pm   #13
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hi guys,

this is an interesting discussion!
For my story on the Philips TV development I've tried to reconstruct these early models: https://www.maximus-randd.com/piets-...ision-pt1.html.
I've attached the overview table I compiled (only Gen0 and Gen1, the full table is MUCH bigger). Interestingly, on the 2405/07/12 it was impossible to find any valve details, and they therefore don't feature in the table. The article that Jac mentioned unfortunately describes the system without giving any valve details.

However, looking at the table and knowing when the EF50 and the likes appeared, I would guess that the 2405-series was closer to the post-war SX861 than to the Tel61. But as we know, the 2405 was only developed as a prototype and never formally launched industrially due to the outbreak of war.

At the same time we should not forget that at the 1939 Radiolympia show Pye was the first to present a (from a performance point of view) revolutionary TRF chain in their 915 TV set, based on five EF50's. In this they were the lead customer of Philips for the EF50, which seems to have been designed based on Pye specs. So it is not very likely that Mullard had already designed the 2405 using the same valves and concept, they were simply behind Pye at that time. But then again Pye had turned to Mullard (first) and the Philips in Eindhoven (next) to help them solving their TRF challenge, so it might well have happened that the Pye design was shared with Mullard in this joint activity.

In other words, any new data on the 2405 design would be welcome!

Cheers, Pieter
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 6:21 pm   #14
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

A lovely set david.
I had the Mullard version that was tv only but it was in poor condition so I passed it on to another collector many years ago .
Some years later I did regret doing this but at the time I needed the space.
I look forward to this restoration david , if anyone came get it going you can.

Robin
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 6:38 pm   #15
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by line sync View Post
I had the Mullard version that was tv only .
Robin
Robin,

Was it the MTS 389?

Jac
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 8:34 pm   #16
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Yes jac that`s the one.

Robin
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 9:32 pm   #17
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

The only thing the MTS389 and the 2405 have in common is the cabinet.
At least we now know the similar looking pre-war set was electrically different from the post war Philips and Mullard sets.

DFWB.
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Old 1st May 2018, 5:19 pm   #18
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

I'm still working my way through this set. I don't have in my possession the service manual for the 563A and I'm using the information for the models 383A and 683A. The HT reservoir capacitor C113 is in fact two 16mfd wet electrolytics in parallel, the smoothing choke S67 is in the HT negative return to chassis. This arrangement provides the negative grid bias requirements in the signals circuits.
There is in the power unit a relay S68 which has the purpose of delaying the introduction of the reservoir capacitor into the circuit until the valves are fully warmed up. The HT rectifier valve is the directly heated Mullard FW4-500 so some sort of device is required to delay the HT when switching on the receiver.

DFWB.

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Old 1st May 2018, 8:52 pm   #19
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Ah... there's a difference compared to the 663A:
The 663A has 2x GZ34 as HT rectifier (but still has the relay).
The 383A has the FW4/500, as apparently the 563A also has.

Making good progress David?

Jac
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Old 1st May 2018, 11:22 pm   #20
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Default Re: Philips 563A restoration.

Hello Jac,
I'm concentrating my attention on the timebase oscillators. It's quite amazing how Philips were successful in employing ECH35 triode-hexodes in the timebase oscillators. Somehow the oscillator injection grid in the hexode section doesn't cause any problems. The frame oscillator is of the blocking transformer type.
I think many elements of the 383A series timebase circuit are employed in the later 385U, also the 441 line TF390A and the earlier TF384.
The attachment shows the position of the HT delay relay.

DFWB.
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