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Old 22nd May 2018, 8:37 am   #1
itsgrumit
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Default General Haig's train communications info wanted.

I am restoring the Chief clerks office and bedroom carriage that was part of the ten carriage train that was General Haig's headquarters train in France in 1917/18 -LNWR Carriage 155-I know nothing about early military phones or their history and am trying to find info on what sort of equipment may have been fitted to the three desks that were in there and what they looked like and what the sockets fitted to the ends of the carriage that fitted to the multicore cable still in place were called/looked like. Ihope then to be able to find some of these items.

From, itsgrumit.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 3:18 pm   #2
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: General Haig's train communications info wanted.

I have the relevant manuals of the era including - 'Instruction in Army Telegraphy and Telegraphy, Volume 1, Instruments' published in 1916.

Army telephones were split into two groups - 'Telephones, Office ...' (four versions Mark II, Mk III, Mk Iv and Mk V - the latter three having high resitance bells and the first a low resistance bell); Telephones, Wall , Mk I and Mk II, Telephones, Portable , A, B, C Mk I, C Mk II, and D Mk's I to III. Of the above, they were all obsolescent by 1916 except for Tele Office Mk V, Telephone Wall Mk II, Tele C Mk II and Tele D Mk III. . When it comes to a switchboard which I don't doubt was used, it would have been a cord patter magneto 'Switchboard, Telephone Exchange, Metallic Circuit, 25 line Mark II which had been superseded by 1916 by a similar commercially made pattern known by the same name but the Mark III version. 'Home stations were kitted out with standard GPO equipment.

I would think that the train would have been kitted out with the 'Telephone Sets Office ...; of the era when the train was 'assembled'/ kitted out.

Ian.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 7:08 pm   #3
Gridiron
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Default Re: General Haig's train communications info wanted.

There is a photograph of the telephone exchange at Haig's headquarters at Montreuil on page 118 of the BBC book "The Western Front" by Richard Holmes. Presumably a much simpler version would have been installed on the train. As the photograph is copyright to the IWM I don't know if I am allowed to post a copy here.
Mike.
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Old 24th May 2018, 7:14 am   #4
itsgrumit
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Default Re: General Haig's train communications info wanted.

thanks very much for the info,i have found a 1914 and a 1916 copy of the manual you mention and hope they will be here by early next week,i can then try find or make relevant items,do you have any idea what company made the commercial version of the equipment you mention, thanks again,tony
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Old 24th May 2018, 5:20 pm   #5
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: General Haig's train communications info wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsgrumit View Post
thanks very much for the info,i have found a 1914 and a 1916 copy of the manual you mention and hope they will be here by early next week,i can then try find or make relevant items,do you have any idea what company made the commercial version of the equipment you mention, thanks again,tony
Very likely to be Ericssons of Beeston, Nottingham later taken over by Plessey in the mid 1960's. Factory (and Plesseys) long gone - happy memories of going on courses there.

For instance, Ericssons 'Telephone MB100 ( was Telephone 390)' was known by the Army as 'Telephone, Portable, Type C' ; The Ericssons 'Telephone MA80' (was Telephone 393)' was the Army's 'Telephone, Portable, Type D Mk 1' and so on. The telephones that were most likely used in the train were the Ericsson 'office' pattern telephones - Ericsson magneto 'office phones' of the era.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 7:56 am   #6
itsgrumit
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Default Re: General Haig's train communications info wanted.

thanks again for the information you gave me and i have managed to get two Ericsson intercom phones of the period (1917) and on the lookout for a couple of external phones of that period--have you any idea as to what the external hook up fittings to the ends of the carriage would look like or what they are called as i would like to try and find some or borrow one to scan and get 3d printed-the phone cable (2 1/2 square hole) is 16 pairs and the top round hole below the square hole takes a single aprox 16mm cable,live one side of door and neutral other side of door,the hole below has three single lighting ? cables,maybe to make it two way-all of these external fittings would be able to be unlinked i should think-do you know of a catalogue of the time or of anyone who may have these items that are for show rather than working-i know very little about phones or electrics,thanks
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