UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc)

Notices

Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12th Jun 2024, 9:55 am   #41
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Hi Chris,

I'll need to run through each again a little later and post results here? A bit tied up just now.

Forgive any Homer Simpson questions, but I assume all of the above with AUX 1 selected and TEAC switched on? Should I leave the sub off also for now?

PS - pleased that my moment has been consigned to history. Extricating the mini system from its current spot would involve a degree of gymnastics beyond my current abilities!
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jun 2024, 11:38 am   #42
Edward Huggins
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 8,394
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Forgive this comment, but the layout of your set up looks very cramped.
I would want to separate everything out and start from the simplest of configurations i.e. no sub-woofer and no other sources connected.
Does the hum go? Then connect the PL12 - does the hum start?
__________________
Edward.
Edward Huggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jun 2024, 11:58 am   #43
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
Forgive this comment, but the layout of your set up looks very cramped.
I would want to separate everything out and start from the simplest of configurations i.e. no sub-woofer and no other sources connected.
Does the hum go? Then connect the PL12 - does the hum start?
Hello Edward.

Many thanks and you may well have a point. Space is somewhat limited so it's a little bit tricky to spread too far but will give that some proper thought. I do certainly want to properly position the speakers.
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jun 2024, 8:39 pm   #44
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

I now am the proud owner of a multimeter. How and where it use it is my next challenge.
Before that I have tried to go through the various checks suggested. It seems to me that hum only comes into play when the pre amp is switched on and the selector switched to aux 1. I tried switching the cables to Aux 2 which had the same result. It's a low hum and only faintly audible at a modest volume and virtually invisible when a record is playing. If I connect and turn on the sub, hum volume jumps considerably. With any other source (cd, Dab, streaming via aux 2 or FM) there is no hum whatsoever, sub on or off. It makes no odds if the pre amp is on or off either if Aux 1 not selected.

I've tried changing cables (interconnects) and moving components further away from eachother. No joy although I did notice a slight drop in hum volume when I added an extension phono cable between the pre amp and the TT output phonos. If I held the cable at the joint, hum volume dropped somewhat.

I'm probably becoming a bit of an annoyance now, sorry. I can probably live with non-sub enhanced record playback - it's just a bit frustrating!
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jun 2024, 10:09 pm   #45
Gabe001
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Do you have 2 black wires coming out of the hollow tonearm retention screw? If so, what are they connected to?
Gabe001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jun 2024, 10:35 pm   #46
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Hi Gabriel,

Where should I look, please?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20240612_223304.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	26.3 KB
ID:	298861  
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jun 2024, 11:50 pm   #47
Gabe001
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Bottom of deck where you took the photos. The tag where RCA cables are attached to
Gabe001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 8:17 am   #48
Gabe001
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Ignore the post above for now. Now that you have the multimeter it would be useful to do a few test. The continuity setting will cause the multimeter to beep when there is continuity between 2 points on a circuit. Generally varies between multimeters I think but mine beeps of the resistance between probes is less than 20 ohms or so. The continuity setting is shown in the picture. It is important to make good firm connections with the probes on bare metal (not paint or varnish)

Could you do the following continuity tests:
1. Turntable tonearm and deck (beep y/n)
2. Turntable: tonearm and RCA outer both of them
3. Turntable: cartridge (test all 4 connections) and tonearm
4. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and deck
5. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and RCA inner and outer. Report on the combinations that beep.

Preamp: grounding post and RCA outer as shown in picture (just as an example)

Amp: both the case and RCA outer and mains earth on plug (disconnected obviously)

Subwoofer: both the case (unless wooden) and the RCA outer or signal ground (black socket) and mains earth on plug.

If I forget anything obvious feel free to add to this list
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20240613_080521.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	49.8 KB
ID:	298866   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20240613_080559.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	47.0 KB
ID:	298867  
Gabe001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 9:46 am   #49
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
Ignore the post above for now. Now that you have the multimeter it would be useful to do a few test. The continuity setting will cause the multimeter to beep when there is continuity between 2 points on a circuit. Generally varies between multimeters I think but mine beeps of the resistance between probes is less than 20 ohms or so. The continuity setting is shown in the picture. It is important to make good firm connections with the probes on bare metal (not paint or varnish)

Could you do the following continuity tests:
1. Turntable tonearm and deck (beep y/n)
2. Turntable: tonearm and RCA outer both of them
3. Turntable: cartridge (test all 4 connections) and tonearm
4. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and deck
5. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and RCA inner and outer. Report on the combinations that beep.

Preamp: grounding post and RCA outer as shown in picture (just as an example)

Amp: both the case and RCA outer and mains earth on plug (disconnected obviously)

Subwoofer: both the case (unless wooden) and the RCA outer or signal ground (black socket) and mains earth on plug.

If I forget anything obvious feel free to add to this list
Thank you Gabriel. I may not get to this until this afternoon or evening. Silly as it sounds, but for tests where you haven't said to disconnect I assume the deck can be connected or does it not matter? The platter doesn't need to be in motion at all? You will have realised long ago that my grasp of such things is fairly poor!

Last edited by Paulietheboy; Yesterday at 10:12 am.
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:40 am   #50
Gabe001
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Turntable doesn't matter as it has a 2 core cable. Connected or disconnected to the mains the results should be the same. The RCA leads will need to be disconnected from the preamp.
Gabe001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 1:46 pm   #51
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulietheboy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
Ignore the post above for now. Now that you have the multimeter it would be useful to do a few test. The continuity setting will cause the multimeter to beep when there is continuity between 2 points on a circuit. Generally varies between multimeters I think but mine beeps of the resistance between probes is less than 20 ohms or so. The continuity setting is shown in the picture. It is important to make good firm connections with the probes on bare metal (not paint or varnish)

Could you do the following continuity tests:
1. Turntable tonearm and deck (beep y/n)
2. Turntable: tonearm and RCA outer both of them
3. Turntable: cartridge (test all 4 connections) and tonearm
4. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and deck
5. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and RCA inner and outer. Report on the combinations that beep.

Preamp: grounding post and RCA outer as shown in picture (just as an example)

Amp: both the case and RCA outer and mains earth on plug (disconnected obviously)

Subwoofer: both the case (unless wooden) and the RCA outer or signal ground (black socket) and mains earth on plug.

If I forget anything obvious feel free to add to this list
Thank you Gabriel. I may not get to this until this afternoon or evening. Silly as it sounds, but for tests where you haven't said to disconnect I assume the deck can be connected or does it not matter? The platter doesn't need to be in motion at all? You will have realised long ago that my grasp of such things is fairly poor!
Could you do the following continuity tests:
1. Turntable tonearm and deck (beep y/n) YES
2. Turntable: tonearm and RCA outer both of them YES
3. Turntable: cartridge (test all 4 connections) and tonearm GREEN and BLUE YES RED and WHITE NO
4. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and deck GREEN and BLUE YES RED and WHITE NO
5. Turntable: cartridge (all 4) and RCA inner and outer. GREEN and BLUE YES RED and WHITE NO
Report on the combinations that beep.

Preamp: grounding post and RCA outer as shown in picture (just as an example) YES

Amp: both the case and RCA outer and mains earth on plug (disconnected obviously) NO and NO

Subwoofer: both the case (unless wooden) and the RCA outer or signal ground (black socket) and mains earth on plug. Case is wooden. RCA outer and ground on pin NO

Things to note - when testing deck I beep was only achieved when using the headshell collar on the tomearm and one or other of the screw points showing in the picture on the deck.

Does any of this help? I also took a pick of the headshell just in case that is any use.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	continuity.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	27.4 KB
ID:	298879   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20240613_133103.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	28.4 KB
ID:	298880  
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 2:21 pm   #52
Beobloke
Heptode
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 840
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

If you'll forgive me deviating from your hum issue briefly, it looks like your cartridge isn't straight in the headshell - you might want to check that at some point.
Beobloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 2:31 pm   #53
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beobloke View Post
If you'll forgive me deviating from your hum issue briefly, it looks like your cartridge isn't straight in the headshell - you might want to check that at some point.
Thank you - all advice is most welcome!

Is it too far forward/back or uneven, would you say?
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 3:03 pm   #54
Gabe001
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Ok. That looks good to me, and you're getting the hang of things. The tonearm grounding is via 2 black wires out of the hollow mounting screw. This indicates (to me) that it is made of 2 separate components. Given your results, could you take the bottom off and make sure that BOTH black wires coming from the hollow tonearm mounting screw are connected to the central tag of the tag strip next to it? (The one the RCA leads are connected to) Whist you're there, also check that the metal bottom plate/foil is also grounded to the deck and tonearm (there should be a wire from this to the same centre tag)

Cartridge possibly rotated slightly clockwise when seen from below.
Gabe001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 4:50 pm   #55
Beobloke
Heptode
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 840
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulietheboy View Post

Thank you - all advice is most welcome!

Is it too far forward/back or uneven, would you say?
It's definitely uneven (rotated slightly) but to determine where it should be in front-to-back terms you will need an alignment protractor.
Beobloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 9:18 pm   #56
Paulietheboy
Triode
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
Ok. That looks good to me, and you're getting the hang of things. The tonearm grounding is via 2 black wires out of the hollow mounting screw. This indicates (to me) that it is made of 2 separate components. Given your results, could you take the bottom off and make sure that BOTH black wires coming from the hollow tonearm mounting screw are connected to the central tag of the tag strip next to it? (The one the RCA leads are connected to) Whist you're there, also check that the metal bottom plate/foil is also grounded to the deck and tonearm (there should be a wire from this to the same centre tag)

Cartridge possibly rotated slightly clockwise when seen from below.

I can only see 1 black wire? The 1 that is visible appears to be attached to the centre tag?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20240613_211304.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	41.4 KB
ID:	298903   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20240613_211256.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	298904  
Paulietheboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:09 pm   #57
Gabe001
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: Pioneer PL-12 Ground Wire?

https://mr-ives.blogspot.com/2013/07...turntable.html

There are clearly 6 wires out of the tonearm in the picture on this chap's site. This includes 2 black to centre tag, seen clearly in the pictures (attached). Have you just got blue, green, white, red(brown) and 1 black? Any evidence of any wires having been cut?

Also, have you got a black wire going from central tag to a metal laminate screening plate at the base of the turntable?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20240613-215916.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	44.1 KB
ID:	298908  
Gabe001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 1:24 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.