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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 11:45 am   #21
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Valveman49,

The clock and date problem on my 1624 is that, although you can enter the correct time and date onto the screen menu, it will not alter the "default" time and date values I get when I plot a stored trace (my scope has the integral thermal plotter fitted).

This is with the scope still powered up. I have replaced the NiCd battery in the rear pod, so I am wondering if the main scope is not "writing" the new date & time settings to the clock & calendar IC in the pod when I press the "set time and date" button on the scope's front panel. If there is a circuit description for this in the main 1604 manual, that would be very helpful.

Many thanks,

Dazzlevision
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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 2:38 pm   #22
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Dazzlevision.
The only information I have for the clock is in the1600 Operators Manual Amendments and only tells how to set the clock. Looking at the diagram for the waveform process pod, the real time clock U5 is connected to the data bus bits BD0 to BD3 and BA0 to BA3 and the read write signals all go to the main CPU board, see post 16 for a PDF of the CPU diagram. The read signal PLKPa14 comes from the Keypad/Internal Plotter Driver ACIA/UART U18 as well as the data bits BD0 to BD3, the BA0 to BA3 are the addressing bits. I do not think this information will be much help as all the signals will be strobe or multiplexed and will be difficult to measure and may not be the same on your scope. One possibility could be software compatibility, which starts at 1.42 to 2.52 in this manual, my revision is 3.56 and not all pods are compatible with the scope software revision. You can see the software revision of the scope and options at the bottom of the screen for a short time on power up and may give a compatibility error if not correct or just not indicate the pod connection. Have a look at the System Overview block diagram and if you would like any of the sections scanned please let me know.
Regards Stan.
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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 5:05 pm   #23
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Stan,

Thanks for your tips. I have printed out the data you have posted and I do have the user manual (version 5) and some loose leaf sheets that Gould issued over the scope's production run - one of which deals with compatibility of software and the options (such as the waveform analyser pod). I will check this.

This scope was made from two others - my original 1624 that was damaged in transit on its way back from recalibration (by Gould Nicolet) and a used 1604 acquired from Gould Nicolet by way of compensation. So, it may be a compatibility issue. I will check all the PROM labels and those in my original 1624 scope's "carcass"!

Regards,

Dazzlevision
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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 7:32 pm   #24
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Stan again thanks for the info. Your scanner must be working overtime!
Can't find any electrical fault in the pod and all the basic commands are working fine so it must be a software problem. Anyone got a (good) dump of a 160a pod maybe?

About the rtc, my 1604 also doesn't hold the time/date. Battery in the pod and on the mainboard are good. I can adjust the time/date and it'll run properly when powered up. Next power up it'll show either all zero's or wrong time and date. Must be a sensitive rtc chip, mm58274.
Could post the compatibilty leaflet?

Simon
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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 8:46 pm   #25
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Simon
Have you checked the software numbers that are displayed at the bottom of the screen at power up, the first number is the scope software revision and the second number is the pod software revision, you have to be quick to see these numbers? If only the scope number is displayed it means that the software cannot talk to the pod, or the pod is not fitted, but if it recognises the wrong revision it may display error, not always though. If you look up these numbers in the compatibility table it will tell you if they are compatible. My version of the leaflet only goes to 2.52, so I would be interested in a more modern one.
With reference “good dump” I take it you are referring to a copy of the EPROM contents, unfortunately the pod fitted to my scope is for a 260 and would not be suitable.

Regards Stan.
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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 8:49 pm   #26
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello,

My 1624 also has a 260 "pod".

I will scan and post the Gould software changes documents but I have to do this at work and I'm on holiday all next week - sorry!

Regards,

Dazzlevision
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Old 23rd Oct 2009, 8:57 pm   #27
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Dazzlevision
I would be interested in a copy of an up to date software change documents.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards Stan.
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Old 24th Oct 2009, 9:51 am   #28
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hi Stan,

Yes the pod is recognised and the number is displayed when it powers up. It shows 3.53 + keypad 2.54. I can also communicate via the rs423 port with the pod. Problem is that some of the commands work fine but most of the math functions not. Even when I type "hellowp" which should show the id and firmware revision it blanks the display and freezes the serial coms. So I assume that the processor is branched to a wrong routine/location.

The compatibility table of the 160a manual doesn't show my scope revision so I cannot check if the pod is compatible. It came with the scope when I bought it so i guess it should match.
I also found out that pressing button master menu 9 several times let you show some extra info about running hours etc. Press it again and it'll reboot/reset the scope. This was not in the manual.......

By dump I mean the hex dump copy of the eprom contents. Phil copied his 260eprom but it doesn't work with my scope. Maybe it's not compatible with my scope rev. It also has a lot more code in it.

regards

Simon
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Old 24th Oct 2009, 10:04 am   #29
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello,

My 1624 scope has software version 4.56 and pod 2.54.

The Gould 1600 series service manual will contain details of hidden functions accessed by multi-pressing of the column of buttons to the right of the display. Stan, could you post this section, please?

I will post the software compatibility info as soon as I return to work.

Many thanks,

Dazzlevision
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Old 24th Oct 2009, 1:37 pm   #30
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Simon, Dazzlevision.
I have been looking at the service manual and there is no mention of the test menus, however Simon’s comment jogged my memory. If you press 9 three times, that is 999 you will enter the test menu. The first three lines are the scope software revision (3.56), then RS423 (3.54), then Keypad (3.54), the values in the brackets are from my scope, It also displays the software revision date, which may help to see what is compatible with what, all my numbers are from 1989 so they may be compatible and in my case it is just the wrong keypad that’s the problem, which comes up with random numbers.
The next is Total cold start 9999,
Keypad input test 9998, you have to press the keys on the keypad and the result is displayed at the bottom left hand corner of the display.
Centre Calibration DAC’s 9997, displays Hex values of offsets,
List Gain Balance Values 9996 this displays the Hex values for the 4 input channels.
I think the values stored in these registers are updated by the auto calibration function and cannot be changed manually.
With reference to the compatibility Dazzlevision may be able to solve this if his lists covers the revision numbers.
Also Dazzlevision have you tried removing the Waveform Processor Pod and setting the time and then using the printer to see if it prints the correct date this may indicate the problem area.
I am sorry I have not been much help with these problems, I will sit down and go through the service manual and see if I have missed something, which may help.

Regards Stan.
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Old 25th Oct 2009, 4:18 pm   #31
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Stan, you don't need the keypad to control the waveform proc. The keypad is of course a handy tool but all the functions of the keypad can also be send by serial commands via the rs423 port. You could try this and maybe the waveform proc. isn't faulty. All it takes is a serial cable connected to the rs423 slot 2.
2-2, 3-3 and gnd.


Simon
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Old 25th Oct 2009, 7:38 pm   #32
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Simon
I used to use a program called Hyper Link (I Think it was called that) to control 8 of these scopes to check timing pulses, a few years ago now, but I still like to use the keypad for what I want to do now. Unfortunately I can not seem to find a 260 keypad to go with the waveform processor fitted to the scope, or a 160 waveform processor and keypad that will work together. Perhaps when Dazzlevision posts his more up to date Software compatibility list all will be revealed.
Regards Stan.
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Old 30th Oct 2009, 2:43 pm   #33
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Little update:

I've looked at the datasheet of the keyboard encoder, inside of the keypad and it seems it just sends a hex code for every key press to the pod. It is transmitted with a baudrate of 600 bps. This would be easy to replicate with a terminal propgram and a rs232 level converter. I hooked up the level converter to a pc and fired up a terminal program and started sending the hex code from the datasheet to the pods keypad connector. All the functions are working!! So my pod is good after all. Now that I know this it's easy to make a keypad with a microcontroller and some buttons!!

Simon
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Old 30th Oct 2009, 7:43 pm   #34
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Simon
That’s very interesting, when I used the test menu option to test the 160A keypad I had on loan, each key press came up with a number in the bottom left hand corner of the screen, I assume this must have been the HEX number code for that key. Is there any pattern to the codes, as when I tested the keypad it did not, follow any sequence, to me it was just a random sets of numbers, which did not tally with the columns and rows of the keypad.
The key which I always found most useful was the “Pulse Width/Frequency” button, which saved a great deal of time when measuring frequency, but using the 160A keypad on the 260 processor pod would not function, yet the curser keys did operate correctly. There is no truth table in the manual for these functions so it looks like I will have to find a 260 keypad or the circuits to find out the differences.
I have found some additional information on the 1600 interface pods and some better quality diagrams of a 160 keypad and interface, also the RS423 and GPIB pods. Please find attached a PDF of the information, which as usual it is in the wrong order. I hope the information is of some use and I hope you are successful in making a keypad. I have always found the keypad much safer to use when working on equipment, which is sometimes floating above earth, even when fed through an isolating transformer.

Regards Stan.
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File Type: pdf Gould Pods.pdf (363.9 KB, 378 views)
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Old 31st Oct 2009, 11:35 am   #35
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Stan,

No, I can't find any pattern, they seem random. It seems they made several keypads with different layouts but with the same functions. E.g. I uptained a manual of a 170 keypad for use with the 4070 series and did some comparison. All the functions of the 160A can also be found on the 170 but they moved the layout around, so buttons have different functions. Most of the cursor and datum postion buttons are compatible. This could be also the case with your 260. I've att a exel file which shows the differences.

I agree that a keypad works much easier and safer. So i'll have a go in constructing one and let you know how it goes. If you could find a manual of the 260 then it's easy to make one for it also....

Simon
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File Type: zip KEYPAD.zip (3.9 KB, 251 views)
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Old 2nd Nov 2009, 12:05 pm   #36
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello,

As promised, here are some Gould documents concerning firmware upgrades and compatibilities.


Regards,

Dazzlevision
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File Type: pdf Gould 460281.pdf (450.0 KB, 409 views)
File Type: pdf Gould 460399.pdf (40.3 KB, 299 views)
File Type: pdf Gould 460402.pdf (199.7 KB, 1149 views)
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Old 2nd Nov 2009, 12:30 pm   #37
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello,

Here are the circuits for the 260 keypad and pod.

Regards,

Dazzlevision
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File Type: pdf Gould 260 pod & keypad.pdf (215.6 KB, 315 views)
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Old 2nd Nov 2009, 5:44 pm   #38
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Dazzelvision, thanks for posting the software compatibility information and the circuits of the 260 waveform processor and keypad. Could you check in the components list that IC U1 is a KR9602-STD as is listed in the component list for the 160 key pad, checking the pin out’s of the circuits they both look the same. I down loaded the data for the KR9602-STD form the data sheet archive http://www.datasheetarchive.com/ but I have not been able to check the codes that come up with the keypad test with anything that is listed in the standard truth table for the KR9602 which corresponds with the X and Y matrix cross points. Of course this could be due to me using a 160A keypad on a 260-waveform processor, but even the cursor keys, which do work, do not display the correct code in the keypad test.
I don’t think I could program a micro, like Simon suggests to do the job, so I have been looking inside old computer keyboards and quite a few use the KR series chip, but alas not the one I need.
Many thanks again and regards Stan.
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Old 2nd Nov 2009, 6:24 pm   #39
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Hello Stan,

Glad the Gould info is of use to you.

I will check in the 260 components list that IC U1 is a KR9602-STD as is listed in the component list for the 160 key pad. Should be able to do this tomorrow afternoon.

Regards,

Dazzlevision.

P.S. The software versions in my 1624 are not as I thought in my earlier post. They are: 4.59 (scope) and 3.5B (waveform analysis pod).
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Old 2nd Nov 2009, 9:04 pm   #40
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Default Re: Gould 1604 waveform processor help..

Stan,
Looking and comparing the schematics of the 160a and 260 showed me that they are identical. So in theory a 160A keypad should work with the 260. Note that the code in the truth table is 10-bits wide but only bits 1...8 are used/send! Also they printed lsb on the left, E.g.: 00011001=98H. Could it be that the 160A pad you used was broken?


Simon
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