Authentic woodscrews?

[Julesomega]

How do members approach the replacement of woodscrews in vintage consumer equipment (say, pre-1960)? I am obsessively worried about binning old woodscrews in Imperial and WireGauge sizes, which were almost invariably plain steel or occasionally brass, with slotted heads. Slotted heads, both Csk and Rd Hd, are a real PITA to work, escpecially with a cordless screw or impact driver and I would only use metric Pozi for any new constructions, but I feel any vintage item is not authentic unless authentic woodscrews are used throughout.

When I dismantle old radio gear or furniture I feel compelled to retrieve the woodscrews and store them, neatly sorted by 'No.' and length, head, and finish. I already have a substantial collection from the early days of Screwfix when you bought online from Exchange & Mart, and would be happy to help others out with 'authentic' woodscrews, but I'd much rather not use them nowadays.

I've just removed these from some redundant speaker enclosures - What do others do?

[lesmw0sec]

Odd that - I have ALWAYS preferred to use slotted screws and a real screwdriver! I would not bother to save anything other than brass.

[barrymagrec]

If anyone is in need of vintage woodscrews, some a bit rusty and some brass let me know, I have a huge number many of which were my grandfathers, some probably date back before the war.

[FIXITNOW]

i always use old slotted screws if i can, brought loads of boxes around local car boots round and countersunk headed, hate to see the modern way of fitting every thing with countersunk screws that end up sitting proud and often in a non countersunk hole

[greenstar]

Like others I far prefer slotted heads. Once a + head burrs over you can neither get it in nor out. I would never use a cordless or impact driver with small wood screws. A nice sharpened small vintage ratchet driver is my choice. I also save any usable old screws and hoard boxes of Nettlefold found at car boot sales. The hardest to find are small brass slotted screws for box hinges, which are absurdly expensive if you can find them. I recently fitted hinges to a BTH crystal set box, using new screws I was delighted to find. Out of twelve screws the heads of six sheared off. You just cannot get the quality.

[McMurdo]

funnily enough I was sorting through my 'collection' of wood screws this afternoon. If I find a shiny philips even holding the back of a vintage radio on (I mean 30's-50's) then I have to change it. I also save old steel and brass slotted screws when dismantling old things, although my dad, one-time auction-obsessed, has amassed crates and crates of NOS boxed vintage slotted brass and steel screws from the likes of Nettlefolds etc...all of which look too new for an old piece of kit but are there in case of emergency.

Extrapolating the subject, I like to fit authentic BA-size slotted domed-head machine screws whenever having to add to or replace something on a chassis, such as a p-clip or earth tag. No-one'll ever see them apart from me but I'll know!

[turretslug]

I wish that hex driver recesses had been popular for wood-screws decades ago. Easier to use than slotted-head, less conspicuous than cross-recess types- Posidriv types are particularly jarring in vintage situations.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Pozidriv etc. are for carcassing only in my book. They are only widely available in bright plating and together with the complex recess shape look out of place or aggressive as a finish. Many's the building I've visited and noticed the bodge on a brass sconce or clothes hook where Bob the Builder has driven in a bright zinc Pozi that stands out glaringly against the neighbouring patinated brass slotted screw. Often the new screw is a countersunk one on a flat plate which is doubly unpleasant.

Some woodscrews now have ridges under the countersunk head to encourage it to be driven below the surface. They're designed for impact driver use on carcassing, not to be visible.

Hinges are another bugbear. A fine aged door, which on opening displays half a dozen original slotted hinge screws, firmly fitting flush into their countersunk recesses, and an equal number of yellow zinc passivated Pozidriv screws sitting proud of the holes from their radiused upper corners. It's just lazy.

In my architect day job I ensure to specify this sort of thing properly as it really does make a difference to the overall feel of a building.

For cabinet/casework I have used Screwsline, who are a small business dedicated to proper screws. Nettlefolds stock and, if you talk to the proprietor, a plan to bring back that factory's screw making machines from where he tracked them down to in China after they were sold. I'm partial to using slotted raised countersunk screws in my own work.

Fundamental to slotted work is a set of properly parallel ground screwdrivers. PB Swiss do some good ones. In watchmaking it's common to grind one's own to fit particular screws. We're not in such a state in usual woodworking, but a set that fits rather than 'almost' makes all the difference. Waxing new screws before insertion is a good idea, too.

[greenstar]

Screwsline are a great find, thanks for the link, which deserves to be a sticky in 'where to get sets/parts'!
I am learning a lot tinkering, and nowhere near yet. yes, I often grind my screwdrivers a little to fit slotted heads more exactly. I have also realised that even on wood, especially on old hardwood cabinets, centre punching twice - a prick to get the centre, then a little punch to locate a screw, and a pilot hole, and yes, waxing long screws, helps. Fitting hinges to boxes I find especially demanding, getting better, but very tricky to get exactly right. I love the old ratchet screwdrivers, especially the little ones, of which I have several.

[mark_in_manc]

Originally Posted by Julesomega

How do members approach the replacement of woodscrews in vintage consumer equipment (say, pre-1960)? I am obsessively worried about binning old woodscrews in Imperial and WireGauge sizes, which were almost invariably plain steel or occasionally brass, with slotted heads. Slotted heads, both Csk and Rd Hd, are a real PITA to work, escpecially with a cordless screw or impact driver and I would only use metric Pozi for any new constructions, but I feel any vintage item is not authentic unless authentic woodscrews are used throughout.

When I dismantle old radio gear or furniture I feel compelled to retrieve the woodscrews and store them, neatly sorted by 'No.' and length, head, and finish. I already have a substantial collection from the early days of Screwfix when you bought online from Exchange & Mart, and would be happy to help others out with 'authentic' woodscrews, but I'd much rather not use them nowadays.

I've just removed these from some redundant speaker enclosures - What do others do?

Just the same as you. Lots of little cardboard boxes with sorted, rusty, slot-head screws in them. A wire mop to shine them up when I come to use them. I have some big ones to use soon in quite tough hardwood, and I am hoping that the torx ones I used to start with (which I don't really like the look of in a 'nice old thing', though they are an excellent system which really don't cam the drive bit out) will have tapped the wood so the slot ones will go in without too much effort. We'll see.

[emeritus]

Something I have found is that the slots of small vintage screws are often narrower than the blades of modern screwdrivers. Dad's old wooden handled screwdriver fits them fine, but I have had to use a grindstone to reduce the blade thickness of modern ones to fit. It is important to have a good blade to avoid damaging the screw. Some on my old screwdrivers' blades had rounded edges where they had obviously been used for things other than driving screws, and benefitted from regrinding.

Slotted brass screws seemed to have vanished from the Screwfix/Toolstation catalogues the last time I looked, other than the M3.5 electical machine screws. Possibly displaced by stainless steel where a non-rusting screw is needed.

[CambridgeWorks]

If ever I visit a car boot or radio rally I always look out for any brass slot head screws (at the right price) to donate to the North Norfolk Railway.
Two years ago on a members day we had a shed tour and part of it was the carriage and wagon workshops. The volunteers do a tremendous job to a very high standard. You can imagine the amount of brass screws they get through.
Brass ba fixings are difficult to find these days as well. Gone the same way as the wood screws, but replaced with metric and often are nickel plated.

Hopefully without going too OT, after a look round on the footplate of the class 20, 20227 "Sherlock Holmes". I commented to the driver that a loose coat hanger was vibrating a lot and could do with a 2BA extra nut to lock it. I had some at home. Did i want to sell them he asked? No! But I would donate them.
He was amazed I recognised the size by sight and we have been firm friends since.
Rob

[emeritus]

Not something I have tried myself, but in a radio programme few years ago, someone who made reproduction antiques said that he aged new copper and brass items by burying them in damp garden soil for a few days.

To reduce the danger of shearing brass screws in resistsant material, I use a steel screw first to form the thread and lubricate with wax (Babybel cheese wax works well). As modern screws often have a different pitch from Nettlefolds, I keep a steel Nettlefolds screw of the same size in my boxes of brass screws to use as a tap, and first drill a pilot hole of about the same size as the screw's root diameter in the same way as I would tap a machine screw thread in metal.

One of the guys at the heritage railway where I volunteer recently mentioned he had a quantity of old slotted steel woodscrews from a deceased relative that he never used, and wondered what to do with them. I already have plenty of my own but said I thought they might be of interest to restorers of vintage stuff.

[Simondm]

Regrinding screwdrivers when they need it is a normal task round here.

A concave grind to the flats, done carefully, can leave you with an almost parallel tip. which works far better than anything wedge-shaped. I always use a slow-speed wet grinder in preference to a fast wheel.

If using countersunk screws, the screwdriver blade needs to be a bit narrower than the head of the screw, because of the depth of the slot - otherwise the corners of the screwdriver catch in the wood within the countersink cone.

Brass screws should be thought of as decorative: always drill both sizes of pilot hole (narrower for the thread), and add a countersink, then pre-thread the hole with an identical size steel screw first.

Also keep a lump of tea light handy (other candle-like objects are available), to lubricate the threads of both steel and brass (just pull the screw across it - you don't need much wax). It makes a huge difference to the torque necessary, and should greatly reduce the instances of brass screws snapping.

[m0cemdave]

One problem with a box of NOS vintage steel woodscrews is that at least some of them will probably be rusty.

I can recommend Evaporust for cleaning them up. It is an extremely effective chelating rust remover and I have used it on many other items too, such as old tools and engineering parts.

[Ed_Dinning]

Hi Gents. has anyone noticed that the more recent slotheaded screws seem to be made from a softer grade of steel and even a modern, well fitting screwdriver will cam out when moderate torque is applied

Ed

[The Philpott]

I've only saved (and only purchased) brass slot-head w/screws, and discarded all the steel ones. I'm certain there was thought behind the taper, the plain shank and the shallow thread of old pattern screws, but gosh, doesn't it make them a pig to use. For this reason i only use them when slotheads are required for aesthetics.

I suppose the ideal for our work would be c/sink slotheads with modern thread type....but i don't see many of them.

Dave

[wireman]

Originally Posted by turretslug

I wish that hex driver recesses had been popular for wood-screws decades ago. Easier to use than slotted-head, less conspicuous than cross-recess types- Posidriv types are particularly jarring in vintage situations.

A couple of years ago I visited a (pipe) organ builder with a group and one thing that jumped out on a restoration project was the pozidrive screws but I'm sure they are a lot easier to deal with. The screws would not be visible externally.
One tip mentioned was to use tallow with screws.

[G6Tanuki]

I am surprised the Robertson square screws never became more widely used. All the advantages of Pozidriv and a bit easier to manufacture...

[wireman]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

I am surprised the Robertson square screws never became more widely used. All the advantages of Pozidriv and a bit easier to manufacture...

I'm only using them for pocket-hole screws. No idea if they were used in vintage Canadian electronics products though. Robertson screws don't have "All" the advantages but that's going way off topic.