AN/APS-15 radar. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

NBSTech · 17th Dec 2020, 5:55 pm

I know it's not technically radio, but I'll put it out there anyway.
I'm in the process of doing research on the AN/APS-15 radar that's fitted to the Lancaster "Just Jane" at the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage centre.
I've have some info from the Smithsonian, and I'm waiting to hear back from the National Air and Space Museum Archives.
So while I'm waiting I thought I'd ask all you nice folks if you have any leads or info that might come in handy, as it were.

n_r_muir · 17th Dec 2020, 6:19 pm

Hi Was "Just Jane" built in Canada? usually only the Canadian built versions of British aircraft designs were fitted with American radio& radar equipment. Ross

NBSTech · 17th Dec 2020, 7:24 pm

No built in the uk in 45. One of a consignment given to the French post war, the radar was retrofitted in 52 for maritime duties.
Jane is a Mk7, the Canadian ones were Mk10.

John KC0G · 18th Dec 2020, 12:23 am

I see that this was the H2X radar which was an improvement on H2S. I found this article (pp 25-) interesting: https://maritime.org/doc/cic/cic-45-02.pdf Note the bit about two different antennas for different applications. I also found, https://vc.airvectors.net/ttwiz_05.html which provides some interesting historical context.

If you want to try US museums, I would contact the National Museum of the USAF, which is at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio. It is just east of Dayton, Ohio, and is well worth a visit. See https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Vi...ombing-mickey/ If you click on <Collections> and <Research> you will also find names of other organisations. For example the National Naval Aviation Museum may be able to help. Given COVID etc, I would not expect prompt replies to enquiries at the present time. Specific enquiries are better. I presume that a set of manuals would be really useful.

Good luck and HTH

John

Radio Wrangler · 18th Dec 2020, 12:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by John KC0G

If you want to try US museums, I would contact the National Museum of the USAF, which is at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio. It is just east of Dayton, Ohio, and is well worth a visit.

A visit there can be easily combined with the Dayton Hamvention and the QRP "Four Days in May" events, if you need more of an excuse...

David

John KC0G · 18th Dec 2020, 6:42 am

You should also read the two-part article on blind bombing in May 1946 issue, https://worldradiohistory.com/Archiv...cs-1946-05.pdf and June 1946 issue https://worldradiohistory.com/Archiv...cs-1946-06.pdf of Electronics. You will find a block diagram of the AN/APS-15, along with a few circuits.

73 John

PS. The "Four Days in May" event is only 5 miles from the Air Force Museum. Xenia, the new home of Hamvention, is another 10 miles away.

M0FYA Andy · 18th Dec 2020, 9:47 am

Why am I not surprised that the US claim that 'H2X radar .. was an improvement on H2S'?
Of course it was better than the initial standards of H2S operating at 9cm, but that was updated to 3cm with H2S MkIII.
Don't forget that the US insisted that the concept of H2S was unworkable until it was demonstrated to them.

Andy

Radio Wrangler · 18th Dec 2020, 9:53 am

It went in B17s?

There is one B17 kept in flying condition in Europe, Sally-B. Privately owned, but kept at Duxford. It might be worth finding out what period radar gear she has onboard. (My connection is that her modern transponder is one I did the RF design of - somewhat more recently!)

David

M0FYA Andy · 18th Dec 2020, 10:14 am

A pal of mine has a manual for AN/APS-15, a weighty tome which he has offered to loan to me. Unfortunately we won't be meeting up until the Covid-business is sorted, so I don't know when I'll have access to it.

Andy

turretslug · 18th Dec 2020, 11:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

It went in B17s?David

Others here will know more detail than me but I gather that the frequently cloudy winter skies over central Europe and inconsistent results using the Norden optical bombsight led to a sprinkling of B17s and B24s being equipped for radar bombing with H2X- there's what is probably what is a well-known photo of a stricken H2X B17 rolling out of formation trailing vivid flame. I don't know whether there was any particular briefing for fighter pilots to "go for ones with a bulge and leave the others blind", probably just fortuitous.

turretslug · 18th Dec 2020, 10:26 pm

https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/5534hjpg

http://www.482nd.org/node/425

Radio Wrangler · 18th Dec 2020, 11:13 pm

There are none of those bulges on Sally-B, so she isn't equipped.

David

John KC0G · 19th Dec 2020, 5:50 am

The paper "Naval Airborne Radar" by L.V. Berkner, Proc IRE, Vol 34. No. 9, Sept. 1946, pp 671 - 706, also contains references to the AN/APS-15.

Sean Williams · 19th Dec 2020, 7:36 am

I wonder if contacting Phil Judkins at DEHS might reveal a source of information?

turretslug · 19th Dec 2020, 11:20 am

It may have been that there were very large quantities of AN/APS-15 components available as new surplus post-war- supposedly contracts for an additional 5,000 B29s were cancelled with the Japanese surrender and it's likely that many components for these would have already been pre-ordered and manufactured in readiness by the multitude of sub-contractors. Centimetric radar isn't exactly the sort of stuff that would have been freely available to the public to purchase at the time, but the US would probably have been happy to pass on to friendly countries like the UK and France.

NBSTech · 19th Dec 2020, 11:29 am

Thanks guys, that's given me plenty to work on.

M0FYA Andy · 20th Dec 2020, 11:54 am

Spen,

Does NX611 possess all the units which make up a complete AN/APS-15?

It would be very interesting if it were possible for you to show some photographs of what is inside the 'drum' containing the scanner assembly, I imagine the 'lid' is removeable? It looks to be very deep compared with the equivalent for H2S, with quite a step-up even from the front, much deeper than needed purely for the scanner gearbox parts. Is there any electronics in there?

Many thanks,

Andy

NBSTech · 20th Dec 2020, 6:50 pm

I'll work on the photos when I figure out how to upload them to this forum.
Yes the scanner is much larger than the H2S one.
The plan is to remove it in the new year so that I can do some conservation work on it as it's looking a bit sad at the moment.

NBSTech · 20th Dec 2020, 7:28 pm

Some of the photo's I took in November.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4549
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4550
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4551
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4552
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4553

M0FYA Andy · 20th Dec 2020, 9:50 pm

Many thanks, very interesting.

17th Dec 2020, 5:55 pm	#1
NBSTech Triode Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 10	AN/APS-15 radar. I know it's not technically radio, but I'll put it out there anyway. I'm in the process of doing research on the AN/APS-15 radar that's fitted to the Lancaster "Just Jane" at the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage centre. I've have some info from the Smithsonian, and I'm waiting to hear back from the National Air and Space Museum Archives. So while I'm waiting I thought I'd ask all you nice folks if you have any leads or info that might come in handy, as it were.

17th Dec 2020, 6:19 pm	#2
n_r_muir Hexode Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 344	Re: An/aps-15 Hi Was "Just Jane" built in Canada? usually only the Canadian built versions of British aircraft designs were fitted with American radio& radar equipment. Ross

17th Dec 2020, 7:24 pm	#3
NBSTech Triode Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 10	Re: An/aps-15 No built in the uk in 45. One of a consignment given to the French post war, the radar was retrofitted in 52 for maritime duties. Jane is a Mk7, the Canadian ones were Mk10.

18th Dec 2020, 12:23 am	#4
John KC0G Hexode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. Posts: 279	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. I see that this was the H2X radar which was an improvement on H2S. I found this article (pp 25-) interesting: https://maritime.org/doc/cic/cic-45-02.pdf Note the bit about two different antennas for different applications. I also found, https://vc.airvectors.net/ttwiz_05.html which provides some interesting historical context. If you want to try US museums, I would contact the National Museum of the USAF, which is at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio. It is just east of Dayton, Ohio, and is well worth a visit. See https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Vi...ombing-mickey/ If you click on <Collections> and <Research> you will also find names of other organisations. For example the National Naval Aviation Museum may be able to help. Given COVID etc, I would not expect prompt replies to enquiries at the present time. Specific enquiries are better. I presume that a set of manuals would be really useful. Good luck and HTH John

18th Dec 2020, 6:42 am	#6
John KC0G Hexode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. Posts: 279	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. You should also read the two-part article on blind bombing in May 1946 issue, https://worldradiohistory.com/Archiv...cs-1946-05.pdf and June 1946 issue https://worldradiohistory.com/Archiv...cs-1946-06.pdf of Electronics. You will find a block diagram of the AN/APS-15, along with a few circuits. 73 John PS. The "Four Days in May" event is only 5 miles from the Air Force Museum. Xenia, the new home of Hamvention, is another 10 miles away.

18th Dec 2020, 9:47 am	#7
M0FYA Andy Nonode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 2,511	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. Why am I not surprised that the US claim that 'H2X radar .. was an improvement on H2S'? Of course it was better than the initial standards of H2S operating at 9cm, but that was updated to 3cm with H2S MkIII. Don't forget that the US insisted that the concept of H2S was unworkable until it was demonstrated to them. Andy

18th Dec 2020, 9:53 am	#8
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,905	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. It went in B17s? There is one B17 kept in flying condition in Europe, Sally-B. Privately owned, but kept at Duxford. It might be worth finding out what period radar gear she has onboard. (My connection is that her modern transponder is one I did the RF design of - somewhat more recently!) David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

18th Dec 2020, 10:14 am	#9
M0FYA Andy Nonode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 2,511	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. A pal of mine has a manual for AN/APS-15, a weighty tome which he has offered to loan to me. Unfortunately we won't be meeting up until the Covid-business is sorted, so I don't know when I'll have access to it. Andy

18th Dec 2020, 10:26 pm	#11
turretslug Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 4,400	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/5534hjpg http://www.482nd.org/node/425

18th Dec 2020, 11:13 pm	#12
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,905	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. There are none of those bulges on Sally-B, so she isn't equipped. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

19th Dec 2020, 5:50 am	#13
John KC0G Hexode Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. Posts: 279	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. The paper "Naval Airborne Radar" by L.V. Berkner, Proc IRE, Vol 34. No. 9, Sept. 1946, pp 671 - 706, also contains references to the AN/APS-15.

19th Dec 2020, 7:36 am	#14
Sean Williams Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW Posts: 3,518	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. I wonder if contacting Phil Judkins at DEHS might reveal a source of information? __________________ Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished

19th Dec 2020, 11:20 am	#15
turretslug Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 4,400	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. It may have been that there were very large quantities of AN/APS-15 components available as new surplus post-war- supposedly contracts for an additional 5,000 B29s were cancelled with the Japanese surrender and it's likely that many components for these would have already been pre-ordered and manufactured in readiness by the multitude of sub-contractors. Centimetric radar isn't exactly the sort of stuff that would have been freely available to the public to purchase at the time, but the US would probably have been happy to pass on to friendly countries like the UK and France.

19th Dec 2020, 11:29 am	#16
NBSTech Triode Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 10	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. Thanks guys, that's given me plenty to work on.

20th Dec 2020, 11:54 am	#17
M0FYA Andy Nonode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 2,511	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. Spen, Does NX611 possess all the units which make up a complete AN/APS-15? It would be very interesting if it were possible for you to show some photographs of what is inside the 'drum' containing the scanner assembly, I imagine the 'lid' is removeable? It looks to be very deep compared with the equivalent for H2S, with quite a step-up even from the front, much deeper than needed purely for the scanner gearbox parts. Is there any electronics in there? Many thanks, Andy

20th Dec 2020, 6:50 pm	#18
NBSTech Triode Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 10	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. I'll work on the photos when I figure out how to upload them to this forum. Yes the scanner is much larger than the H2S one. The plan is to remove it in the new year so that I can do some conservation work on it as it's looking a bit sad at the moment.

20th Dec 2020, 7:28 pm	#19
NBSTech Triode Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 10	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. Some of the photo's I took in November. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4549 https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4550 https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4551 https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4552 https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...pictureid=4553

20th Dec 2020, 9:50 pm	#20
M0FYA Andy Nonode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 2,511	Re: AN/APS-15 radar. Many thanks, very interesting.