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Old 12th Jan 2019, 11:40 am   #41
woodchips
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Not clear about the problems with recycling.

If you have a dead item then drop it into your local scrap metal merchant, from there it will quite definitely be recycled.

Bit more tricky with things with large amounts of plastic and similar, but ask, they take what is called irony aluminium, basically aluminium contaminated with steel, copper, in fact almost anything. They have take monitors from me, not flat panel displays since don't have any dead ones. One thing they won't take is NiCd batteries, no idea who takes them.

You won't get anything for them, need 1/4 tonne for that and even then only £20-30.

The WEEE directive put me out of business with the costs involved.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 2:48 pm   #42
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

An interesting discussion here: https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/if-no...ngs-wouldnt-we

The comment about resoling a pair of £500 shoes but not a £10 pair of trainers is quite a good one: along with the demise of TV-repair shops the once-ubiquitous high-street-cobbler's is also all-but-extinct.

I can even remember the days when people repaired umbrellas.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 4:31 pm   #43
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Looking at the positively (pun intended in retrospect) dangerous goods that get sold here (with no reports of death so far as I know) I for one wouldn't hesitate to repair a 'good un'.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 4:44 pm   #44
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Shoe repairs, key cutting, watch repairs etc easily available in many areas.
https://www.timpson.co.uk/services/shoe-repairs
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 5:16 pm   #45
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Gaby Hinsliff caught the wave for the Guardian yesterday ["Make do and mend: a motto for our times" 11/1/19] maybe someone will do a link? The references to planned obsolescence are interesting but sometimes misguided. To summarise she points to the obvious economic social problems/contradictions around relying on consumerism and says MDAM can sound "a horribly old-fashioned concept" but "there is something very timely about the right to repair". I think it could have been strap-lined "Make do and mend:also a motto for our times" given the UK experience from the 1920's through WW2 and on to the 80's!

Dave W

I was going to use MADAM but thought it might lead to outrage!
Also I've been watching the classic film "84, Charring Cross Road" where it is pointed out that "Madam" has a different meaning in America! It does illustrate post war Britain brilliantly as well eg the gratitude for food parcels from the States!<

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Old 12th Jan 2019, 6:05 pm   #46
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Sometimes it can be satisfying to mend something of very little market value when it actually happens to be of considerable personal utility, and when strict time vs. money considerations would be ludicrously unrealistic in the commercial world- something that much of the posting on this forum celebrates!

"Recycling" has an extremely elastic definition nowadays for the sake of PR and political goalposts- almost outrageously, it can encompass energy-from-waste (incineration), and the council etc. passing onto someone to pass onto someone to pass onto someone..... to put in a rusty barge and dump on a Third World beach for poor people to scavenge in the hope of paying for their next meal- well, that's recycling, innit?
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 6:35 pm   #47
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

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Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Not sure if the local one [actually a subfranchise in the corner of a Johnson's dry-cleaners] still does shoe-stuff. The A-board in the street outside doesn't mention shoe repairs; the place _does_ do dog-tag/brass house-nameplate engraving, old-fashioned-key-cutting, watch-batteries, car immobiliser battery-swaps/key-reprogramming, phone-repairs/unlocking, VHS-to-DVD conversion and laser-cut-vinyl signs/vehicle-graphics though.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 7:32 pm   #48
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

I guess there are several meanings to recycling.

Firstly, not throwing away items which are still functional but are no longer wanted or needed. We have a very active 'Freegle' group locally where all sorts of items from bikes to furniture, TVs, printers, guitars - even aluminium greenhouses are offered free.

The Local Authority at the waste disposal site also has a busy 're-use shop' where items which would otherwise have gone into skips are offered for sale. Electrical goods at PAT Tested and checked that they're in working order. As this area is flat as a pancake, it's always had a high proportion of people who ride bikes - not to keep fit or for leisure, but for getting about - to work to shops etc. Lots of bikes for sale at nominal prices, all checked for safety.

Ironically, the largest number of bikes that get are children's and they rarely sell so are destined for the skip. The reason they don't sell is that bikes make an ideal Christmas or Birthday present and most parents won't give their kids a secondhand bike as a present. The problem is exacerbated as children soon grow out of their bikes and need a larger one. (Another Birthday/Christmas present). They also have scores of sets of golf clubs which no-one seems to want, but at least the Council makes an effort. (I often see timber, plywood and old solid oak and mahogany furniture in the skips, which seems rather a shame when the likes of me would gladly give it a home).

As to making things to last longer and to be repairable, just over five years ago we bought a 19" Blaupunkt TV from Richer Sounds. It cost £125. After fours and a half years it went on the blink (wouldn't change channels either on the remote of the TV). I took it back to Richer who said "It's beyond economical repair, it's no longer made and it's obsolete so we'll replace it with a Smart TV with Freeview, iplayer, HD ready' built in DVD player/recorder etc". He went into the storeroom and came out with a 24" Toshiba TV, price at the time from Richer was £149. I asked if they expected me to pay for the extra for the upgraded TV. He said "Of course not - we don't pull stunts like that - my job is to put a smile on your face, not to pick your pocket". I asked if the guarantee would end at the five year stage of the original TV. He said no - it will have the normal warranty, which is now six years'.

Great service, and true, it might only have needed a cap or two to repair, but the labour costs would have prohibited that, and if it had lasted six months, how would that have helped me, or their reputation? Customer goodwill is money in the bank - I'd never go anywhere else but Richer for TVs of hi-fi.

As to cars, we have a Hyundai i30 which has a five-year no quibble Warranty.

AS to cobblers, there are several Timpsons and other cobblers around here, but I think one reason their workload has dropped is that many of us don't walk so much. I've got a pair of perfectly serviceable Timberland shoes with synthetic soles rather like on walking boots. I bought them in 1994 and the soles still aren't worn out. (I do have other pairs of shoes!). I wear them for walking round the village and in town. We're in a walking Club but wear boots for that.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 7:41 pm   #49
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Our Dry Cleaners is also a Cobblers. (Early closing Wednesday..of course)

The lady who asked before xmas if anyone could repair her (1930's?) fairy lights was directed to the concept of the repair cafe- but i did point out that liability concerns might limit the help she received to merely 'advice'.

Dave
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 7:47 pm   #50
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Quote:
Originally Posted by David G4EBT View Post
As to making things to last longer and to be repairable, just over five years ago we bought a 19" Blaupunkt TV from Richer Sounds. It cost £125. After fours and a half years it went on the blink (wouldn't change channels either on the remote of the TV). I took it back to Richer who said "It's beyond economical repair, it's no longer made and it's obsolete so we'll replace it with a Smart TV with Freeview, iplayer, HD ready' built in DVD player/recorder etc". He went into the storeroom and came out with a 24" Toshiba TV, price at the time from Richer was £149. I asked if they expected me to pay for the extra for the upgraded TV. He said "Of course not - we don't pull stunts like that - my job is to put a smile on your face, not to pick your pocket". I asked if the guarantee would end at the five year stage of the original TV. He said no - it will have the normal warranty, which is now six years'.
I rejoice at this: you had a problem, the store accepted the problem, and sent you away happy. Customer-service like it should be. Almost certainly "at the manager's discretion" but truly a great advert for the brand and I bet you'll be returning to Richer Sounds for future purchases.

[I hope they consigned the dead-and-obsolete telly to their WEEE skip so it got properly recycled].
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 8:19 pm   #51
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

That company really does rely on it's reputation and service. As far as I can see they use a fast turnover business model, to finance no quibble service... not just the profit margin.

They've recently re-introduced a stand alone CD Recorder [rare now]. There was a re-conditioned one at half price with only a twelve month guarantee but the paperwork suggests it has the six year option for which you lay out £24 [I didn't] but get it back if you don't claim. Either way I took the "risk" and purchased, knowing I will get a good response in the event of any problem. I'm not even that regular a customer but they want me to be.

Dave

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Old 12th Jan 2019, 8:47 pm   #52
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Length of warranty is quite interesting.

I was at a meet-the-customers doo for a very upmarket product of a sort best not disclosed on this forum. A British brand at that time under German ownership. Their brand had come under a lot of fire for poor reliability for years. In the presentation they banged on about their quality and prestige and how they'd completely turned around their reliability.

I pointed out that they gave a one year warranty, then pointed out that a down-market Japanese competitor gave a three ear warranty as standard, and then asked which company REALLY had confidence that their reliability was good.

There was a bit of a silence.

Then a voice with hardly a trace of accent replied "There is really no defence to this argument"

Job done!

A few months later, three year warranties were announced. I like to think I was one of the straws which broke the camel's back. Leastways I think I contributed

On all manufactured goods, the length of the warranty is a solid indication of how much trust the manufacturer has in his product.

My day job is with a manufacturer of radio stuff for a market which is rather concerned about reliability. Your reputation hinges on the reliability of your product and once we've shipped a radio or radar unit the only influence on the outcome is the standard to which we built it. It's like a moon shot. Once you've launched it, it's too late to do it any better.

Even so, problems will occur and how customers are handled makes a massive difference, as David, above, relates.

With good enough engineering, failures become rare and warranty costs little. If the manufacturer I met above only trusted his product so little, why should I trust it any more?

David
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 9:10 pm   #53
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB View Post
Never mind repairability, I find it an outrage that mobile phone manufacturers are allowed to make them with non-replaceable batteries!

I have been hoping the EU might one day ban that kind of overt planned obsolescence.

Wouldn't it be good if the CE Declaration of Conformity had to include a service manual?

Gets my goat as well


When I finally gave in and got a "smart" 'phone I eschewed the S6 in favour of the S5 purely becuase I could remove the back and pop the battery out. Aside from replacing it when at the end of its life, it is good to be able to carry a charged battery in the car in case of emergencies.


The S5 is now a little long in the tooth but still more than adequate for my use but I've been looking round as a replacement for the day something drastic happens to it. I found this :-

https://shop.fairphone.com/en/?gclid...SAAEgJqG_D_BwE

Quite pricey and not a wonderful spec, but I'll probably go for it becuase the support offered will most likely mean a long life

https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 10:59 pm   #54
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture BBC News today.

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Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Not everyone is capable of safely repairing and item. There is then the cost of labour on any repair, I have just bought a new washing machine with a 10 year parts guarantee, unfortunately to get the spares it has to be via having the machine repaired by there own team. Call out charge at the moment £120.
New washing machine £300, there are cheaper ones, after 5 or 6 years use many would question a £120 callout charge.
To make the repair viable a new machine would have to cost a lot more, how many are willing to pay more.

It’s a long time since I was in retail but price was very often the main driver of a sale.

I don’t know what the answer is, but those doing the repairs will not want less for their labour, those paying will not want to pay more.
BIT O/T, but answer to call out charge is extended warranty. Question then is when the cost of warranty exceeds the cost of one callout/year. On the other hand ,there are sites like White goods forum ,where repair blokes give their advice freely on how to fix stuff.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 10:37 am   #55
dave walsh
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Featured on PM Radio 4 at the moment!

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Old 13th Jan 2019, 11:38 am   #56
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

One point not touched upon is 'er indoors. It seems that kitchen and other goods are now fashion rather than functional items. Perfectly good equipment and furniture is replaced because it "is so LAST YEAR darling". That is something that needs to be worked on.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 11:59 am   #57
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Dresses are even worse.
She will be terrified of being seen wearing twice by the same person.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 12:08 pm   #58
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

Fashion, keeping up with the Joneses and status is what has kept the economy going for years, nay decades, nay centuries, nay...

(I ought not to complain - it's kept me in work )
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 12:51 pm   #59
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

If your ever in Tenby and you want your shoes repaired call in to my old mate “Dai the boot” in the market, he’s been going since days of old. He reckons he’s got uncollected boots belonging to Nelson .
Cheers
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 12:55 pm   #60
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Default Re: Changing the throw away culture, BBC News

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Fashion, keeping up with the Joneses and status is what has kept the economy going for years, nay decades, nay centuries, nay...

(I ought not to complain - it's kept me in work)
I'm actually an anti fashionister. The bean-counter led downgrade of products has been gradual and systematic and I've worked out jeans (etc) from the 80s are made a lot better than the stuff these days. I scour ebay for new old stock. Problem is, occasionally my late 70s early 80s "look" temporarily flickers back into fashion. It causes me immense consternation while it lasts
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