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Old 4th Jan 2019, 11:03 am   #61
Radio Wrangler
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I notice that the HMV shops remaining open were instructed by the administrators to continue to accept gift vouchers.

This may be a learning from the collapse of Jessops. Many people were left holding instantly worthless gift vouchers. Some people had collected hundreds of pounds (and a few well over a thousand pounds) in vouchers, saving up for a new digital camera. When Jessops was bought out of receivership and the brand revived, the gift vouchers remained unusable. Consequently the revamped firm with the reputable name just might have difficulty selling any new gift vouchers. Gift vouchers can represent a useful part of a retailer's turnover, and the delay between purchase of a voucher and the handover of goods can be rather helpful to cash-flow.

I think the era of gift vouchers might be drawing to a close...

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Old 4th Jan 2019, 1:26 pm   #62
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I remember hearing (think it was on something like 'In Business' on Radio4) that by far the biggest benefit of gift-vouchers/cards to a retailer is the ones which get forgotten-about and so are never redeemed....

Who knows, in years to come unredeemed Virgin Megastore/Our Price Records/Zavvi/HMV/Maplin/Toys-R-Us/House-of-Frazer gift-voucher-collecting could become a nostalgia-thing a bit like collecting phonecards was a decade or so back, with some trading for significantly more than their face-value.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 2:26 pm   #63
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

A fair part of the Manchester store is taken up by t-shirts, figures, musical hardware etc.

I think I have a Music Zone voucher somewhere, along with a membership card from when they would give you a discount for being a member.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 3:13 pm   #64
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

BBC news report on music sales,
Is this the end of owning music? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46735093
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 4:28 pm   #65
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
I think the era of gift vouchers might be drawing to a close...
If you look at the various ones you can buy now, they say that any money loaded onto them will be forfeit after a certain interval.

I actually still had a mortgage when I first noticed this phenomenon. It seemed completely unfair that after I had effectively lent money to the store and passed on the debt to a third party, the borrower could just arbitrarily default on the balance of the loan.

Just shows, it's the ones who have the gold, who make the rules .....
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 4:57 pm   #66
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Its quite sad in some ways. I have many happy memories of buying CDs and browsing at HMV in my youth. I have to say also many angry memories too of, "how can they charge 16.99 for a flipping CD!?". They did themselves no favours either when piracy meant that 16.99 was competing with 0.00.

Their entry into the digital market has been poor and outshone by everyone else. Online presence also poor, the last time I bought DVDs from them it took 2 days to ship items that were in stock. Can anyone imagine how well service like that competes with Amazon?

As others have said physical media accounts for a small amount of music sales, but continues on as long as the big players eat up a lot of the profits to be had in downloads. As I understand it, CDs are more profitable to record companies than an equivalent download. Had this been different CDs might not exist at all by now.

I have recently become a spotify convert after years of having music digitally ripped to a server. Pains me to say it but nothing else beats the convenience and range spotify has. If they went lossless id endorse them even more, as it stands the high quality streams are excellent regardless. Success of such services make HMV a complete irrelevance.

I don't really buy CDs now, but I buy "special" stuff on vinyl, and 99% of the vintage music I play is from vinyl or shellac where I appreciate the authenticity and want to play it back on period equipment. I have eclectic tastes

The 30 vinyl reissues of music originally mastered for CD as found in HMV simply doesn't appeal, I don't see the point. Does anyone else? Perhaps not.

In the forest fire that is modern retail, I think the problem with HMV is a product that is no longer viable filling their stores, they retail it to a decent enough standard within their stores.

Why on earth the likes of WHSmith still exist, when their in store standards are so hideous is beyond me. See the @WHS_Carpet twitter page for evidence
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 5:03 pm   #67
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I don't think it's the end of owning music. The problem is that the streaming sites are not paying the full cost of the music. One artist said that after over several million streams on Spotify they got a royalty check from them. And then sent a reply back and said "another one of them and I will be able to afford a year's subscription to Spotify".
With that kind of indirect subsidy it's no wonder Spotify and the like are doing well and HMV going down the pan!
Of course it can't last and the gravy train that the public are riding with millions of almost free songs will have to paid for at their expense down the line.

WH Smith are still going due to the book market. Even though you can get books cheaper on Digital, it's not the same as a printed book. You don't have to recharge the reader too!
And many people are idle when it comes to searches on the net. I think they would sooner go looking around a book shop.

Last edited by Grubhead; 4th Jan 2019 at 5:09 pm. Reason: Extra information
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 5:18 pm   #68
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I think you're right as far as smiths go, a primary product of theirs - books, are still viable and has weathered far better than CDs have. They still exist mainly off of revenue from travel stores however, where there is a captive audience, many high street stores are not profitable once the rent, rates and staff are paid.

There are plenty of cases of musicians not being paid for music being on spotify, but theyre not the big players, its the smaller folks without the same legal representation that the bigger acts have access to. So Im not sure that's too relevant, those acts will not be streamed in huge numbers

To be honest the only people I know still buying CDs are probably aged 40 plus. There is simply no younger market any more and that's a big problem for retailers of music, where pop has for a long time been about youth
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 5:22 pm   #69
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

W H Smith is a useful place from which to buy specialist magazines which aren't routinely stocked by newsagents.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 6:25 pm   #70
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I think I'll take a wander round the charity shops in town tomorrow and see if there are any interesting CDs. They're the only outlet we have hereabouts other than compilation for the car discs in supermarkets (Ugh!)

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Old 5th Jan 2019, 5:10 pm   #71
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychMan View Post

There are plenty of cases of musicians not being paid for music being on spotify, but theyre not the big players, its the smaller folks without the same legal representation that the bigger acts have access to. So Im not sure that's too relevant, those acts will not be streamed in huge numbers
That's just not true.
Spotify last year, the service paid out $0.0038 per play. Not much has changed this year. With a reported 51.51% market share in the US, Spotify pays $0.00397 per stream.

Spotify is in 6th place on who pays out the most to Artists. It was easily beaten by Google Play and Amazon.
However Spotify has over half the share of the market! The money they make is going to the executives of Spotify. But the rub is that the company has made an operating loss since it started. But nobody is talking of them going into administration!
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 11:14 pm   #72
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

That's just not true.
Spotify last year, the service paid out $0.0038 per play. Not much has changed this year. With a reported 51.51% market share in the US, Spotify pays $0.00397 per stream.

Spotify is in 6th place on who pays out the most to Artists. It was easily beaten by Google Play and Amazon.
However Spotify has over half the share of the market! The money they make is going to the executives of Spotify. But the rub is that the company has made an operating loss since it started. But nobody is talking of them going into administration![/QUOTE]

I thought you were referring to them not paying artists at all, rather than low rates for their music. I’d imagine they get away such low levels because of their place in the market. Aritists, or more importantly the labels or rights holders want their content to get maximum exposure and will accept poor returns as a result. Ultimately nobody is forcing them to allow it on Spotify to my knowledge. I’m not here to defend them as company, I’m sure they are exploitative at times, and I don’t like the idea of screwing down rates for artists

It’s a convenient service for the end user and they have got a very strong foothold in a market transitioning away from physical media. HMV are clinging on to physical media and as a result will not be around very long in my view
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 1:22 pm   #73
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Bit of breaking news on the HMV saga.
Doug Putman who owns sunrise records stores in Canada has put in a bid to save HMV which eclipses Mike Ashleys bid.

My local one has closed ive been told but there are still about 80 stores operating.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47108099
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 1:30 pm   #74
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Further news.

HMV has been saved, I'm happy for the chain and for the staff, although some stores will still close.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47127520
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 2:25 pm   #75
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Like other shops, HMV might be more successful if they stocked what their customers want to buy and made them feel welcome. A shop interior as black as a cheap nightclub, blasting pop music, and only a small classical section does not attract me. I now buy almost all my CDs as cover CDs on BBC Music magazine.

Many years ago I was a regular customer at Farringdon Records. Not only did it sell what I wanted to buy, but the man behind the counter actually knew all his stock and could recommend a recording to suit the customer. Such shops seem to have disappeared.

Hopefully the new HMV owner will be able to improve things.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 2:31 pm   #76
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
Like other shops, HMV might be more successful if they stocked what their customers want to buy and made them feel welcome. A shop interior as black as a cheap nightclub, blasting pop music, and only a small classical section does not attract me. I now buy almost all my CDs as cover CDs on BBC Music magazine.

Many years ago I was a regular customer at Farringdon Records. Not only did it sell what I wanted to buy, but the man behind the counter actually knew all his stock and could recommend a recording to suit the customer. Such shops seem to have disappeared.

Hopefully the new HMV owner will be able to improve things.
Fopp is one chain where the staff seem musically savvy & the stock is a little more niche, but classics don't feature too much on the shelves.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 2:34 pm   #77
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Seems to be someone who appreciates the value of iconic British Brand names in particular! I hope it's good news for Fopp Records as well [posts 3*+12*] if there is still an HMV connection that is?

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Old 5th Feb 2019, 2:55 pm   #78
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

G8HQP Dave, I agree with you, but those kinds of shops are a rarity nowadays. I'm sorry to read that Fopp in Oxford will close, having bought a couple of LPs and CDs from there, though HMV Banbury isn't on the closure list.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 3:02 pm   #79
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I've not seen this list LW, thanks for the quick response! I thought there were only 4 shops anyway Is Manchester saved? Of course Fopp is a different animal to the HMV shops.

[Sorry Richard I didn't notice your more current reference to Fopp].

Having found the list, I note that ALL the Fopp outlets are axed!
I see it perhaps makes business sense in terms of people now downloading music/video rather than buying a hard copy but it might be short-sighted in the long run. Record shops keep returning despite all the predictions!

There was a lot of regret when "Music's Not Dead" expired in Bexhill recently but it now lives again as a part of the De La Warr Pavillion Cafe/Performance Space!

Dave

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Old 5th Feb 2019, 3:40 pm   #80
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Quote:
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G8HQP Dave, I agree with you, but those kinds of shops are a rarity nowadays.
That is not my experience. Every independent record shop I have ever visited is staffed by enthusiastic and knowledgeable people who not only know what they have in stock but are also able to make sensible recommendations. Most (maybe all) have good sound systems installed and play great music too, it is not unusual for me to ask what is playing and buy a copy. Some even have a coffee shop!

Examples of great record shops hidden away from the shopping precincts:
Piccadilly Records Manchester - (celebrated their 50th anniversary last year)
Music Mania Hanley (Stoke on Trent)
SK1 Records (Stockport)
Underground Solu'shn (Edinburgh)
Rough Trade (London - East & West)

There are plenty of others I have visited but those are the ones that immediately come to mind. The trick is to get off the high street.
I am afraid though that if your taste is more classical or Radio 2 then it is probably much harder to find what you want other than online.

Mike
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