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Old 29th Dec 2018, 12:45 pm   #21
evingar
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

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Originally Posted by peter_scott View Post
Perhaps it is better that the HMV brand is only part of history instead of being applied to products with which it has little or no relevance.

Peter

I would tend to agree. What they have done to the likes of Bush brand is enough to make you weep - and that's by roughly staying in the same market.


Rank is now only a load of seedy gambling joints !
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 2:26 pm   #22
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Our local charity shops are my source of vinyl, 50p for LPs and 30p for 45's and 78's.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 2:32 pm   #23
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

It's a shame they never got the download store fixed properly from day 1. When downloads first came into being, HMV only had low bit-rate files available, ( I think 128k) rather than even cd-quality, and the download process was glitchy. They seemed to be left behind by entrepreneurs and start-ups who had found better systems. They were IMHO usurped by young companies run by people they'd probably never heard of.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 3:09 pm   #24
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

HMV, like much of the traditional high street has had its day. The array of small grocery, butcher's , baker's, etc., shops I remember as a child was unsurped by supermarkets long ago, though a few still remain - there will always be a niche market for some goods.

With the arrival of the web, records, CDs, books, etc., are online. You can find more there than you ever will in a shop, though the joy of physical browsing is now long gone. The last time I went into a high street record shop is over ten years ago. I used to work regularly in a reasonably upmarket district and I would browse when I went to get my lunchtime sandwich. Dangerous to my pocket as I often came away with something! plus there was always a chat to be had with the proprietor. As soon as the lease ended the shop closed. You could see the pattern emerging. The fishmonger gave up his shop and returned weekly to serve his loyal customers from a van. When a commercial solicitor friend told me of the sort of rent and rates payable on this street I was astonished that so many shops lasted as long as they did.

A high street in another suburb not far away from the above but more down market has whole lines of shops - I have counted seven or eight in a row that are empty. It's time to convert some of these properties to residential use.

The only book shop in my local town is a remainder store. I often look in. The town is awash with charity shops. I can name at least ten off the top of my head. Then there is the modern day vesion of 'uncle's'. The charity shops were once a happy hunting ground for vinyl but those days have gone.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 6:08 pm   #25
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Here in my hometown there are 7 or 8 empty shops, including two quite large ones, whilst a new shopping precinct has been built on the edge of town, near a relatively recent housing development. In town there are four charity shops, of which the Oxfam one has a wide selection of Vinyl (LP & 45), some 78s, CDs & DVDs galore. This afternoon I bought two CDs from there. The only shop selling new DVDs & CDs is the local W.H. Smith Branch.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 7:53 pm   #26
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

There is a trend developing for Councils to buy up shopping centres, not necessarily local, presumably in an attempt to slow or stop the descent into ghost towns.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 8:21 pm   #27
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

This could be / will be a disaster for me as I (a) prefer to own hard copies of any media I buy and (b) prefer to browse and see before I buy.

This Christmas I only bought one item online (a specialised item from the UK importer) and I must have spent around £150 - £200 in HMV alone, primarily on DVD and 4K media. I don't stream video or download music, I do listen to one or two tracks on Youtube but then I buy the CD if I like what I hear. I don't know what more I, as an individual, can do to help shops like HMV.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 8:37 pm   #28
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

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Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
There is a trend developing for Councils to buy up shopping centres, not necessarily local, presumably in an attempt to slow or stop the descent into ghost towns.
That's an interesting observation Bill. The second phase of my town centre's (relatively) new shopping complex has just opened. The 'anchor' supermarket is always full of people but the other retail outlets do seem to be hard to let and then not as busy as I'm sure the occupants would like. The eateries and drinkeries look like they're doing very well though.

In the end these complexes, whether they're council owned or privately so, will only stay busy if they give the people what they want. If folks really wanted to preserve bricks-and-mortar shops then they would stop buying online and would head out to the high street instead. I'm forced to the conclusion that actually not enough people do want shops. It'll be interesting to see what their councillors make of this.

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Old 29th Dec 2018, 9:03 pm   #29
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

We used to do quite well out of shops in low-rent locations, railway arches run-down areas selling surplus stuff, components and all that sort of stuff. It was a wonderful age.

Since then town centres have died as the council's parking charges drove shoppers to out of town retail parks, and now we have my local town steadily filling with tattoo parlours and hairdressers. They've even driven the shoe shops out! It's about 10 years since our independent record shop (only record shop) closed down.

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Old 29th Dec 2018, 9:29 pm   #30
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
This could be / will be a disaster for me as I (a) prefer to own hard copies of any media I buy and (b) prefer to browse and see before I buy.

This Christmas I only bought one item online (a specialised item from the UK importer) and I must have spent around £150 - £200 in HMV alone, primarily on DVD and 4K media. I don't stream video or download music, I do listen to one or two tracks on Youtube but then I buy the CD if I like what I hear. I don't know what more I, as an individual, can do to help shops like HMV.
There's nothing you can do. You are in a minority.* The days of widespread CD and DVD use are numbered though the media will probably stick around for esoteric stuff - classical and jazz CDs seem to be released at a steady rate though I daresay the consumers of this are mainly in the older bracket. We'll soon be talking about CDs as wistfully as vinyl and exchanging info on how we keep our vintage players going. There might be a revival every now and then but never enough to keep chains of shops open.

I am listening to a CD right now on my approaching-vintage Sony boom box. I pefer the tangibility of the physical item though remember how poor and limiting in presentation I felt the crystal case was when compared to an LP sleeve. An LP sleeve is probably an alien concept to most kids - but what you've never had or known you never miss. We are all products of our time.** Today music is consumed in a different way - like a massive stack of singles that can be played continuously at random. The concept of building an album where it was planned to fill two sides of vinyl and came about because of physical limitations has gone. Consumption is very much 'Classic FM' in style where for the most part you just play a jumble of favourite tracks and rarely the whole suite. I like to hear the whole symphony but most people are happy with their favourite bits and you can't argue with that. Do today's pop acts still make albums? (I'm massively out of touch so really don't know.) There is another issue as far as I am concerned and that is that, having ceased being a volume consumer of pop music decades ago, my CD buying has slowed down to a snail's pace - between vinyl and CDs I've got pretty much all I want and several recordings of some classical works.

However, odd things happen: I did see some blank cassettes for sale in my local Wilko the other day!

*We're probably all in a minority on here.

**We're in another minority that tend to appreciate things from an earlier age. For Mr/Ms Average it's mostly about latest and greatest.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 9:49 pm   #31
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Like an earlier poster, I prefer to own a hard copy of what I like to listen too. I do wonder how musicians, engineers, backing musicians etc, would say if it ever got to the stage where a physical copy completely disappeared. Streaming and downloading is great, but how do you give credit to the musicians, producers, etc if all people want to do is listen to a ‘ghost’ copy?


Personally, l like reading the CD / DVD inserts. I like to know who the musicians were, who wrote the song, who engineered and mixed the track, etc. Ok, so this could be provided with a download, but it’s unlikely most people would bother opening up a ‘window ‘ to read the credits!


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Old 29th Dec 2018, 10:15 pm   #32
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

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Personally, l like reading the CD / DVD inserts. ... it’s unlikely most people would bother opening up a ‘window ‘ to read the credits!
Not to mention singing along to the lyrics on the back of the LP sleeve
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 11:09 pm   #33
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

The same sense of loss happened in Australia, with the loss of AWA (Amalgamated Wireless Australia) They made appliances from about 1912, manufactured valves (AWV) every bit as good as RCA's originals, made semiconductors too, made radios & TV's. They could not compete with cheap imports, when the import tariffs got dropped by the Whitlam Governement in the '70's. The name & Logo was acquired by a Casino group and the logo used for a while, then it has all but disappeared. It is sad when an iconic name goes. Makes me appreciate my HMV 904 TV even more.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 11:23 pm   #34
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

They don't quite go though, they live on with enthusiasts who can differentiate the wheat from the chaff, discarding the one and appreciating the other.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 12:37 am   #35
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I like hard copies.

I've had a few downloaded tracks and books which cost me money, that got lost in various ways like having to transfer to a new computer.

My CDs remain reliable.

I'm going to have to start trawling charity shops! Lord knows, we've got enough of them.

David
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 1:46 am   #36
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

Oh well..................

At least I still have my local LP retailer in Carlisle, and I think there's still one in Kendal, not bad for a county with a population about the same as a large town anywhere else!
I was in Carlisle HMV a couple of times in the run up to Xmas and it was packed with people, but I can't say how many actually bought anything.
I found a few CDs that I was looking out for but mostly it was I suppose fairly mainstream popular stuff. But heck most of it was dead cheap, £3.99 for a Jake Thackray CD, blimey I have seen CD's in charity shops for that kind of dosh.
(jake Thackray, all good yorkshiremen should enjoy his stuff and for the southerners \i can offer a translation service!)

There's still a market out there, not all youngsters are into downlaods. Theres a backlash now starting in favour of owning physical media. RW hits the button, at least CD's are mostly reliable and can't be lost in "the cloud".

I won't get involved in any arguments about LP, I know where I stand on it, am happy to buy new pressings at the price they are, and these days avoid used LPs for the most part as I got weary of knackered old records that had been "previously abused". A new modern CD player/DAC revitalised my system and I think CD is about as good as it needs to be in a domestic environment, all things being equal.
The DAC bit of the CD player means that if I get forced into having to play internet downloads at least I dont need to buy a new bit of kit to decipher the raw bits so to speak, my tablet device will serve as a feed from a storage card.
I hope some sort of phoenix rises from the ashes, theres still money to be made selling media. I suspect part of the problem is also that the big retail organisations have to make a huge percentage profit to please their investors rather than just give a decent living to a proprietor and staff. This is not unique to HMV's business, unfortunately all business is subject to thiis pressure and inevitably choice and quality will suffer.
Sad innit?

A.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 3:21 am   #37
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

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To be brutally honest these days nobody under-40 buys physical media; downloads and streaming made the HMV model unsustainable when everyone's subscribed to Steam, Netflix, YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, Apple etc. (or where oldtimers like me still download our fansubbed anime via BitTorrent).
Dare I ask how you assumed I'd be purely into everything involving electronics minus the physical format?
I was born 32 years ago, no one on this forum has yet mentioned cassettes, I'm a 90's kid and still live in the 90's with cd's & cassettes, it's all I know.
In hindsight of what's happening with HMV, they will be missed, the last online order was a few months ago, they has 5 disc albums for about 6 quid, not that the forum is into the 90's old skool/club scene!
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 6:35 am   #38
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

This is the information on music sales in 2016 and 2017, published January 2018. As far as I am aware 2018 figures will be published early January 2019.
It will be interesting to see what changes,if any, are shown in the stats.

Of course statistics, to me, never seem to tell the whole story.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...or-two-decades

General trends seem to be, streaming the largest, next physical media and then digital media. physical media still dominated by CD sales but they are falling, both cassette and vynl growing but the numbers for both are still quite small. A growth of 43% for cassettes but the total was only 22,000.
Digital media saw a big drop, probably those buying from Amazon and iTunes etc moving to streaming.

See if the latest figures are published in the next few weeks.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 2:31 pm   #39
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

In all seriousness .... the reasons for this latest demise are extremely complex and go well beyond 'technology' - were this not so, then thousands of Pubs would not have closed over the last decade or so.

'Convenience' and 'techno victims' admittedly play some role in the death of 'physical retailing' .... but so do other factors: crippling business rates; lack of parking; declining disposable incomes; taxation in general.

Bear in mind that media sales [and the devices that all here on this forum delight in] are [or were] deemed by Government to be 'luxuries' ...... never forget the BVA 'valve cartel' and the crippling taxes associated with the same! However, as we have seen - the more ingenious will always strive to overcome these constraints.

I do buy stuff on-line .... but never clothing or ale - and I really hate buying any vintage device or components 'sight unseen'. (Even if these components or devices meet your expectations ..... you still risk them being broken in transit.)

Personally, I anticipate a steady growth in specialist/boutique 'independent' physical media outlets specialising in both genre and types [i.e. vinyl, cassette, CD etc.]. The growth in vinyl sales and devices upon which to play it [no matter how dodgy] is encouraging .....
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 3:52 pm   #40
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Default Re: HMV in administration.

I'm quite lucky that the artist I support still releases their music on CD's and sometimes exclusively vinyl. (I also have possibly the biggest collection of her media in the UK).

It's the best way to support your favourite artists as they get a bigger cut out of the profit of the physical media rather than just streaming.

I buy a lot of media on Discogs and a lot of the sellers on there are small record shops, Discogs being just another outlet for them.
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