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Old 31st Jul 2018, 8:50 am   #21
dseymo1
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

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Originally Posted by wd40addict View Post
Wow plenty of thoughts there!


Presumably a multigrade will perform at the winter viscosity, so 5 for the 5w/30?
That's not quite how it works.
In approximate terms, the '5W' indicates that the viscocity increases by 5 under winter conditions; after all, an SAE30 oil is unlikely to become an SAE5 when it's cold.
These days you can get, say 0W/30 oils, whose viscocity is stable over a wide temperature range.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:07 am   #22
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

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Originally Posted by Radio1950 View Post
Whatever you do, do not use WD40 for this application.
Absolutely.

I am a member of a forum that is all about teletypes and teleprinters. They have all sorts of horror stories about using WD40 on such machines. Basically it washes all the gummy old grease into every mechanical nook and cranny, then evaporates. That renders the machine completely locked solid, and the only recovery is a complete strip down and part by part clean (a serious big job with many hundreds of small parts).

They have all sorts of witches brews for lubrication - I'd have to really poke around to find them and are probably not directly relevant to sintered bearings.

I might occasionally use WD40 to soak a seized bolt, but that is all.

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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:08 am   #23
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

I recall being taughtback in the early 70s, that Sintered bearings were 'Lubed for Life', and did not/should not need re-oiling. IIRC, this was taught on a refresher course about servicing Blaupunkt In-Car Cassette Decks, but would apply to anything which used sintered bearings. Admittedly I don't suppose any manufacturer expected their equipment to last 30 or maybe even 40 years. That having been said, I haven't had to relubricate any sintered bearings -yet!!
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:17 am   #24
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

>> the '5W' indicates that the viscocity increases by 5 under winter conditions<<

Sorry but this is not correct. There is a lot of confusion over the numbers used to describe multi grade oils, but this single diagram explains it very clearly:-

Cheers.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:42 am   #25
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Thanks for that Trigon, it is indeed very clear.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:43 am   #26
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Warning: do not use paraffin in an oil mix!!

My father used to do that and I suffered the consequences. The paraffin evaporates quite quickly and you are then left with a much thicker mixture.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:46 am   #27
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

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Originally Posted by Trigon. View Post
Sorry but this is not correct. There is a lot of confusion over the numbers used to describe multi grade oils, but this single diagram explains it very clearly
Agreed - I over-simplified to the extent that it gave the wrong impression. My apologies!
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:47 am   #28
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

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There is a lot of confusion over the numbers used to describe multi grade oils
There is also some confusion over the letters I think. Used in the middle the "W" is as Trigon described. But I have a feeling that "W" was also used to indicate it had detergent, maybe as a suffix? Very confusing.

Can anyone clear that aspect up?
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 9:49 am   #29
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

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Warning: do not use paraffin in an oil mix!!
The small amount of paraffin is there to help the mixture penetrate between adjacent surfaces. It can be omitted if you don't need or want the oil to creep in this manner.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 10:07 am   #30
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB View Post
Quote:
There is a lot of confusion over the numbers used to describe multi grade oils
There is also some confusion over the letters I think. Used in the middle the "W" is as Trigon described. But I have a feeling that "W" was also used to indicate it had detergent, maybe as a suffix? Very confusing.

Can anyone clear that aspect up?
The “W” suffix in an SAE J300 viscosity grade number simply signifies that its fluidity requirements are determined primarily in terms of low temperature viscosity parameters. Grades without the W suffix are determined wholly by high temperature viscosity parameters.

Originally, back in the 1930s if not earlier, the W suffix was used informally, being added to the SAE 10 and 20 grades where they had low temperature fluidities that made then especially suitable for winter cold start conditions. Hence originally W meant winter. It was formalized with the 1950 revision to the J300 standard, which added the SAE 5W, 10W and 20W grades. There have been multiple revisions since. (The classification system itself reaches back to 1911.)

The grade numbers are essentially arbitrary, except that the higher the number, the higher the viscosity. The original list ran 10, 20, 30,……70. There have been many additions and some deletions since.

To clear up a common misconception, W in the J300 context does not mean, and has never meant “weight”.

And this classification system refers only to fluidity characteristics. It has nothing to do with composition, such as the presence of absence of detergent-dispersant additives, or performance characteristics, for which separate standards exist.



Cheers,
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 10:14 am   #31
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Returning to the original question, the best first port of call is, if possible, to ascertain what type of oil the bearing makers used as “initial fill”, and what, if anything, did they recommend for relubrication. A reasonable “guess” as to what was used originally would be a relatively simple rust and oxidation inhibited industrial circulating (mineral) oil. Viscosity grade is more difficult to estimate, but ISO VG 46 might not be too far out.


Cheers,
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 10:16 am   #32
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

My cynical view about "lubricated for life" components is that their life is shorter than it would be if they were lubricated regularly. Certainly the "maintenance-free" universal joints and king pins of my Hillman Imp needed regular replacement. They had originally been fitted with grease nipples, no doubt deleted to save manufacturing costs.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 10:52 am   #33
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Hello,
This https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1116 suggests that they used SAE30 oil.
(It also mentions the stronger super oilite made from iron and copper.)

Vegetable oils are in many ways superior to mineral oils but they oxidise very easily so have a short life.
In the past castor oil was often used in racing car engines as it was superior to mineral oil and only used for one race.
Penrite still make a castor oil based racing oil:- https://www.penriteoil.com.au/produc...-full-synethic
Yours, Richard
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 11:04 am   #34
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Thankyou for stressing the interaction between gear-oil and certain materials. Best avoided then. Perhaps this might be one difference between hypoid and spiral bevel oils- who knows.

I have half a pint of 'Filtrate' running in compound in the shed- containing Acheson's DAG colloidal graphite, apparently! i wonder what the heck THAT can now be used for.. I can only describe the small as nostalgic. I think it would be good for door locks still.
I suspect that no amount of hyperbolic-oxy-action would get it out of a white tee-shirt. Fancy a challenge, Vanish!?

Dave
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 11:45 am   #35
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

I took a small sintered bronze bearing to a machinist the other day to see whether he could machine up a replacement. He said that such sintered bearings were initially packed with a graphite lubricant.
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 12:54 pm   #36
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

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Vegetable oils are in many ways superior to mineral oils but they oxidise very easily so have a short life. In the past castor oil was often used in racing car engines as it was superior to mineral oil and only used for one race.
Yes. Don't use castor oil! It's a super lubricant, immensely forgiving, ideal for precision, close tolerance fits - but it doesn't last.

I used it to lubricate the clutches and pulleys in a posh Grundig AM/FM radio. It all worked fine for a couple of months, then things started to stiffen up. Cleaning its not a trivial task! I can only imagine the tears and heartache it would cause to a sintered bush...
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 1:47 pm   #37
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

I don't think castor oil has ever been used to factory fill sintered bearings. Modern ones seem to use graphite or moly while I imagine they used sperm oil when first developed.

The tendency of castor oil to gum up was one of the main reasons it was superseded in household oil in the postwar years (the other main factor being cost).
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 3:47 pm   #38
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Moose View Post
Hello,
This https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1116 suggests that they used SAE30 oil.
Yours, Richard
In post 19, that is precisely what I suggested - Comma SAE30 classic motor oil.

Craig
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 4:17 pm   #39
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

For a straight SAE30 oil I use this stuff:-

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsen...ails_container
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Old 31st Jul 2018, 4:28 pm   #40
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Default Re: Oil for sintered bearings

(I think the name 3 in 1 indicates 'lubricates, cleans, protects' although there could have been an additional meaning)

It also came in 3 versions (does it still?) The penetrating and easing one contains graphite, and is the bees knees for removing sticky label glue, and the cycle and mower version is thick grade for applications in which most of the middle grade would end up on the floor.

Dave
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