TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

rogerdup · 22nd Jul 2018, 5:11 pm

Hello,
Our club found this beautiful TV Philips 1426, of course not working. I would like to restore this set but unfortunately the LOPT is dead. It is enclosed in a round can filled with oïl. The EY51 is "swimming" inside. What a strange idea Philips had when doing this! No repair possible. The later series lopt was not that dummy design.
I will put more pictures as I progress on this set restoration.
Have a good week everybody!
Roger

FERNSEH · 22nd Jul 2018, 5:16 pm

Hi Roger,
I'm looking forward to learning more about this very rare set.
Oil filled transformer is not very nice. Take care, the oil might be nasty stuff.

DFWB.

German Dalek · 22nd Jul 2018, 10:40 pm

Hi Roger,

As said before, this oil is ultra dangerous.
It contains PCB, never touch it and don´t let it open.
These stupid constructions are very dangerous.
A former friend of mine was fighting with them in SABA
projection sets, second generation.
If you ever open the box, the transformer assy is destroyed.
He told me, that they were closen under vacuum.
He opened several of them and tried to rebuild.
All transformers were killed, because there was always a little air
in the transformer, that leads to arcing!

My dentist told me that:
As he wanted to get rid of his Roentgen machine he has to pay big cash.
Why? It was told, that the oil became PCB because of the use with high voltage
and temperature.

I cannot tell you if all that is really correct, but we have to findd out
how to deal with these transformers.
I hope that other collectors with experience will add informations.

Best regards,
German Dalek

Jac · 23rd Jul 2018, 7:13 am

see this:
https://vintage-radio.net/forum/show...1&postcount=17

I have no idea if the oil in any of the non-square transformers is the same!

Jac

rogerdup · 23rd Jul 2018, 3:04 pm

Hi David German and Jac,
I will discard this round can anway. It shows oil leakages all around and is definitively out of service.
One of our club member his looking in his stock of tv parts to see if one lopt appear..

unitaudio · 23rd Jul 2018, 4:19 pm

Looks to be in very good cosmetic condition. It'll be great to see it working!

Regards,
Paul

FERNSEH · 23rd Jul 2018, 4:31 pm

Hi Roger,
how about this transformer? This is a line output transformer that was donated to me many years ago by Wilfrid wiwior. Works in many TV receivers. Although designed for 819 lines the transformer will work in many 405 line sets, for example, the Pye CTM4 which was the subject of discussion a few months ago.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=146572&page=2

If you would like to try one in the Philips TF1426 I'd be happy to re-export a similar transformer to France.

Gotta get rid of that oily thing.

DFWB.

German Dalek · 23rd Jul 2018, 5:13 pm

I forget to tell, that the oil-transformer will end its life when not
connected to the CRT!.
My former friend killed 1-2 from SABA sets with 25 kV, because he forget
to connect the HV plug with the CRT!
Regards,
German Dalek

Pieter H · 23rd Jul 2018, 6:18 pm

This is indeed a very nice old set!
As to the tuner and front end part: this was the last French single-channel TV with the tuner on the chassis. The RF was in principle tuned to the single 819-line channel transmitting at that moment, F8a (PC 185,25MHz, SC 174,1) and the last family (together with the TF1726 and TF1428/1728) to use the 36,15MHz VIF 25,0MHz SIF.
To cope with the 819-line 13MHz bandwidth this set was the first to introduce a tuner using ECC81 cascode input stage. For details and a circuit diagram see here.

It's obvious that I'm very interested in some good close-up pictures of the tuner section!

As to the oil-filled LOPT cans, this was common practice at least the first few years of TV development. When my father built his 567-line TV in 1948 Philips only gave the components, support in assembling and aligning the TV was in principle not provided with the exception of the filling and soldering of the LOPT can! The one in my fathers TV is fortunately not rusting nor leaking. Jaq has already provided the link to the report of some Dutch experts that have repaired the LOPT can of a similar TV. Good luck!

Cheers, Pieter

rogerdup · 23rd Jul 2018, 7:45 pm

Hi Friends,
I am happy that this TV bring so much attention to you. It is in very good cosmetic appearance and I love the front style. The inside was not that fancy. chassis completely covered with a dark sticky grease all over. I removed the 18 tubes for cleaning and testing. The cabling look not too bad. The electrolytic can capacitors are to be replaced. So, our first job will be to replace all power components.

I go to the club on Wednesday and will take as much photos of the set as I can.

David, I will be delighted if you can ship this LOPT to me for testing. A chance to put this set working again, thanks to you.
Take care everybody !
Roger

Maarten · 24th Jul 2018, 1:00 pm

I'm surprised to find such encouragement of throwing away original parts here in this forum. It might really be in such a bad condition that restoring or even restuffing isn't possible but in general I would highly doubt that, given that people have indeed had some degree of success. If there is PCB containing oil in it, chemical testing will be necessary now anyway since it presumably contaminated the surroundings. Then we will know whether PCB containing oil was used. If I were to take a guess I'd say that would have been too expensive for mass production, but with Philips you never know.

Jac · 24th Jul 2018, 2:00 pm

Roger,

If you throw away the LOPT, I am interested in it.

Jac

rogerdup · 24th Jul 2018, 4:51 pm

Hi Everyone,
For Jac: I will not throw away the LOPT can before we have one to replace it.
On the other hand I don't see any inconvenience to ship this part to you, but what about mail restriction for that kind of product potentially dangerous for the environment?
For Maarteen: I said that the can showed various areas covered by oil leakages. So, even if some oil remain in the can, I don't know how much has been lost My opinion based on previous messages and no possibility to refill it, this part is out of service and we will have to get rid off it.

Maarten · 24th Jul 2018, 7:02 pm

I understood about the leakage, hence my warning: if there is the smallest suspicion of it containing PCB's you should handle everything it leaked over as contaminated. However I understand that isn't your main concern for throwing it away. I haven't (yet anyway) done one myself, but I would think there is a good chance it's perfectly restorable. Either by repairing with close to original parts - however you would want to replace any embedded paper capacitors as those might not survive exposure to (moist) air or by restuffing it with a more modern wound component.

Anyway, since that is out of the question I do support Jac's offer to take it off your hands. Just package it in a leakproof container and/or a few plastic bags each taped tight before (double) boxing it and don't worry about it. I don't suppose there are really PCB"s in it and if by any chance there are, they won't leak out and will not likely be noticed.

Jac · 24th Jul 2018, 7:34 pm

Hi Roger,

Do you have a photo of the LOPT?
By the way, shipping should not be a problem.
A few watertight plastic bags around it should be sufficient.
And some cardboard or stiff paper around that.
Just note "old transformer" on the parcel.

Jac

rogerdup · 24th Jul 2018, 7:38 pm

The leakage traces around the can are mainly close to the cables output and were dry. Past Saturday, I cleaned all this without too much caution about poisoning. The lopt has no open to PL81, PY81 and deflection coils , but unable to check the wounds between the EY51 anode and the PL81 anode: they are in oil.
What problem if we try to put in service this? I imagine sparks Inside the 12KV can..
Old electrical industrial transformers here were filled with pyralène. Perhaps this is the case here.

I will took a photo of the can lopt and various other of the TV tomorrow when going to the club.
One thing dummy about that LOPT design: You are not able to replace the EY51 if it fail!

FERNSEH · 24th Jul 2018, 8:03 pm

Hi Roger, Pyralene is toxic!

https://www.futura-sciences.com/mais...yralene-10876/

DFWB.

rogerdup · 24th Jul 2018, 9:19 pm

Hi David,
Yes this product has very bad reputation. I don't know if the LOPT is filled with this but I will be very cautious about it. I will investigate try to know about what product Philips used then.

FERNSEH · 25th Jul 2018, 4:36 pm

News Flash! Hi Roger,
The 819 line output transformer is on it's way to your address. This is the transformer that was fitted in the Pye CTM4 television so we know it works OK.
The ersatz transformer can be employed in the Philips TV until a decision about the original oil can transformer has been made.

DFWB.

rogerdup · 25th Jul 2018, 5:46 pm

First of all: a GREAT thanks to David ! I am sure we are going to do a nice restoration with the set now !
Here some photos of the lopt can. We definively discard this object as said before. I can mail it if necessary but Don't want to be responsible for the misuse of it. You can see leakage trace on the side. They were more but I cleaned it before.
Also a photo of the same type of set but without the lopt can an a more usual mounting. Philips engineers changed their mind about the can limitation (no possibility or difficult to repair).
The tubes used for the line time base are PY81, PL81 and EY51.

Roger

22nd Jul 2018, 5:11 pm	#1
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hello, Our club found this beautiful TV Philips 1426, of course not working. I would like to restore this set but unfortunately the LOPT is dead. It is enclosed in a round can filled with oïl. The EY51 is "swimming" inside. What a strange idea Philips had when doing this! No repair possible. The later series lopt was not that dummy design. I will put more pictures as I progress on this set restoration. Have a good week everybody! Roger Attached Thumbnails

22nd Jul 2018, 5:16 pm	#2
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: TV Philips 819 lines 1952 Hi Roger, I'm looking forward to learning more about this very rare set. Oil filled transformer is not very nice. Take care, the oil might be nasty stuff. DFWB.

22nd Jul 2018, 10:40 pm	#3
German Dalek Hexode Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany. Posts: 368	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi Roger, As said before, this oil is ultra dangerous. It contains PCB, never touch it and don´t let it open. These stupid constructions are very dangerous. A former friend of mine was fighting with them in SABA projection sets, second generation. If you ever open the box, the transformer assy is destroyed. He told me, that they were closen under vacuum. He opened several of them and tried to rebuild. All transformers were killed, because there was always a little air in the transformer, that leads to arcing! My dentist told me that: As he wanted to get rid of his Roentgen machine he has to pay big cash. Why? It was told, that the oil became PCB because of the use with high voltage and temperature. I cannot tell you if all that is really correct, but we have to findd out how to deal with these transformers. I hope that other collectors with experience will add informations. Best regards, German Dalek __________________ And now something completly different: MARC BOLAN, he was/is the real king of Pop Music!

23rd Jul 2018, 7:13 am	#4
Jac Heptode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands. Posts: 642	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 see this: https://vintage-radio.net/forum/show...1&postcount=17 I have no idea if the oil in any of the non-square transformers is the same! Jac

23rd Jul 2018, 3:04 pm	#5
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi David German and Jac, I will discard this round can anway. It shows oil leakages all around and is definitively out of service. One of our club member his looking in his stock of tv parts to see if one lopt appear..

23rd Jul 2018, 4:19 pm	#6
unitaudio Heptode Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Manchester, UK. Posts: 862	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Looks to be in very good cosmetic condition. It'll be great to see it working! Regards, Paul __________________ ...No, it's not supposed to pick up the World Service, it's not a radio!

23rd Jul 2018, 4:31 pm	#7
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi Roger, how about this transformer? This is a line output transformer that was donated to me many years ago by Wilfrid wiwior. Works in many TV receivers. Although designed for 819 lines the transformer will work in many 405 line sets, for example, the Pye CTM4 which was the subject of discussion a few months ago. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=146572&page=2 If you would like to try one in the Philips TF1426 I'd be happy to re-export a similar transformer to France. Gotta get rid of that oily thing. DFWB. Attached Thumbnails

23rd Jul 2018, 5:13 pm	#8
German Dalek Hexode Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany. Posts: 368	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 I forget to tell, that the oil-transformer will end its life when not connected to the CRT!. My former friend killed 1-2 from SABA sets with 25 kV, because he forget to connect the HV plug with the CRT! Regards, German Dalek __________________ And now something completly different: MARC BOLAN, he was/is the real king of Pop Music!

23rd Jul 2018, 6:18 pm	#9
Pieter H Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Waalre, Netherlands Posts: 67	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 This is indeed a very nice old set! As to the tuner and front end part: this was the last French single-channel TV with the tuner on the chassis. The RF was in principle tuned to the single 819-line channel transmitting at that moment, F8a (PC 185,25MHz, SC 174,1) and the last family (together with the TF1726 and TF1428/1728) to use the 36,15MHz VIF 25,0MHz SIF. To cope with the 819-line 13MHz bandwidth this set was the first to introduce a tuner using ECC81 cascode input stage. For details and a circuit diagram see here. It's obvious that I'm very interested in some good close-up pictures of the tuner section! As to the oil-filled LOPT cans, this was common practice at least the first few years of TV development. When my father built his 567-line TV in 1948 Philips only gave the components, support in assembling and aligning the TV was in principle not provided with the exception of the filling and soldering of the LOPT can! The one in my fathers TV is fortunately not rusting nor leaking. Jaq has already provided the link to the report of some Dutch experts that have repaired the LOPT can of a similar TV. Good luck! Cheers, Pieter

23rd Jul 2018, 7:45 pm	#10
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi Friends, I am happy that this TV bring so much attention to you. It is in very good cosmetic appearance and I love the front style. The inside was not that fancy. chassis completely covered with a dark sticky grease all over. I removed the 18 tubes for cleaning and testing. The cabling look not too bad. The electrolytic can capacitors are to be replaced. So, our first job will be to replace all power components. I go to the club on Wednesday and will take as much photos of the set as I can. David, I will be delighted if you can ship this LOPT to me for testing. A chance to put this set working again, thanks to you. Take care everybody ! Roger

24th Jul 2018, 1:00 pm	#11
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 I'm surprised to find such encouragement of throwing away original parts here in this forum. It might really be in such a bad condition that restoring or even restuffing isn't possible but in general I would highly doubt that, given that people have indeed had some degree of success. If there is PCB containing oil in it, chemical testing will be necessary now anyway since it presumably contaminated the surroundings. Then we will know whether PCB containing oil was used. If I were to take a guess I'd say that would have been too expensive for mass production, but with Philips you never know.

24th Jul 2018, 2:00 pm	#12
Jac Heptode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands. Posts: 642	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Roger, If you throw away the LOPT, I am interested in it. Jac

24th Jul 2018, 4:51 pm	#13
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi Everyone, For Jac: I will not throw away the LOPT can before we have one to replace it. On the other hand I don't see any inconvenience to ship this part to you, but what about mail restriction for that kind of product potentially dangerous for the environment? For Maarteen: I said that the can showed various areas covered by oil leakages. So, even if some oil remain in the can, I don't know how much has been lost My opinion based on previous messages and no possibility to refill it, this part is out of service and we will have to get rid off it. Last edited by rogerdup; 24th Jul 2018 at 4:57 pm. Reason: complement of informations

24th Jul 2018, 7:02 pm	#14
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 I understood about the leakage, hence my warning: if there is the smallest suspicion of it containing PCB's you should handle everything it leaked over as contaminated. However I understand that isn't your main concern for throwing it away. I haven't (yet anyway) done one myself, but I would think there is a good chance it's perfectly restorable. Either by repairing with close to original parts - however you would want to replace any embedded paper capacitors as those might not survive exposure to (moist) air or by restuffing it with a more modern wound component. Anyway, since that is out of the question I do support Jac's offer to take it off your hands. Just package it in a leakproof container and/or a few plastic bags each taped tight before (double) boxing it and don't worry about it. I don't suppose there are really PCB"s in it and if by any chance there are, they won't leak out and will not likely be noticed.

24th Jul 2018, 7:34 pm	#15
Jac Heptode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands. Posts: 642	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi Roger, Do you have a photo of the LOPT? By the way, shipping should not be a problem. A few watertight plastic bags around it should be sufficient. And some cardboard or stiff paper around that. Just note "old transformer" on the parcel. Jac

24th Jul 2018, 7:38 pm	#16
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 The leakage traces around the can are mainly close to the cables output and were dry. Past Saturday, I cleaned all this without too much caution about poisoning. The lopt has no open to PL81, PY81 and deflection coils , but unable to check the wounds between the EY51 anode and the PL81 anode: they are in oil. What problem if we try to put in service this? I imagine sparks Inside the 12KV can.. Old electrical industrial transformers here were filled with pyralène. Perhaps this is the case here. I will took a photo of the can lopt and various other of the TV tomorrow when going to the club. One thing dummy about that LOPT design: You are not able to replace the EY51 if it fail!

24th Jul 2018, 8:03 pm	#17
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi Roger, Pyralene is toxic! https://www.futura-sciences.com/mais...yralene-10876/ DFWB.

24th Jul 2018, 9:19 pm	#18
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 Hi David, Yes this product has very bad reputation. I don't know if the LOPT is filled with this but I will be very cautious about it. I will investigate try to know about what product Philips used then.

25th Jul 2018, 4:36 pm	#19
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 News Flash! Hi Roger, The 819 line output transformer is on it's way to your address. This is the transformer that was fitted in the Pye CTM4 television so we know it works OK. The ersatz transformer can be employed in the Philips TV until a decision about the original oil can transformer has been made. DFWB.

25th Jul 2018, 5:46 pm	#20
rogerdup Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Chamalières, France. Posts: 167	Re: TV Philips 1426, 819 lines 1952 First of all: a GREAT thanks to David ! I am sure we are going to do a nice restoration with the set now ! Here some photos of the lopt can. We definively discard this object as said before. I can mail it if necessary but Don't want to be responsible for the misuse of it. You can see leakage trace on the side. They were more but I cleaned it before. Also a photo of the same type of set but without the lopt can an a more usual mounting. Philips engineers changed their mind about the can limitation (no possibility or difficult to repair). The tubes used for the line time base are PY81, PL81 and EY51. Roger Attached Thumbnails