Radios with a TV-Audio band - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

stephanie · 12th Aug 2005, 9:24 pm

Were these ever popular in Britain or even the rest of Europe?

Here in the West, some portable radios are sold with a so-called TV band that picks up audio from the VHF television channels 2 to 6 and then 7 to 13. The regular broadcast FM band is between channels 6 and 7, which is why the TV band is split into two sections.

Were radios like this ever sold in Britain? And if I were to take one of these sets to - say Germany, for instance. Would it still work properly on that band?

joe · 12th Aug 2005, 9:58 pm

Hi Stephanie

I don't know if they were popular, but they certainly did exist. I actually have a couple. In the late thirties when the UK, or at least London, had a 405 line system the sound went out on, I believe, 41.5 MHz AM. Just about within the capabilities of the valves available at the time. I seem to recall that the selectivity was fairly poor, so the TV sound was always mixed with frame sync pulses.

Joe

SPCh · 12th Aug 2005, 10:09 pm

Yes, that's right, Joe; but it wasn't at 41.5 MHz (Hz hadn't been invented, then), or even at 41.5 Mc/s (which had been) but on a waveLENGTH of (about) 7.2 metres. Those who did not know (and that was many if not most) wndered why the BBC went to the trouble of transmitting it TWICE, once on meters, and once on Megacycles.

Panrock · 12th Aug 2005, 10:37 pm

My '38 motor-tuned Defiant MSH 938 has a 'TEL' band for television sound. I have fired it up from my local Ch1 ring main and it works quite well, with no vision-on-sound, though it's fairly insensitive and apt to drift if the AFC feature isn't selected.

Once I visited Russia with a small western radio and I could pick up the sound from one of their VHF TV channels very well on its FM band.

Steve

Hybrid tellies · 13th Aug 2005, 12:42 am

In the 1980's there were some small handheld portables that covered the CB band, and almost continuous coverage from 54Mhz all the way upto 160Mhz.
I could hear our BBC1 sound from the 405 line network until 1985 when they shut 405 down. These radios were very basic were easily overloaded and suffered horrendous image breakthrough problems. But saying that I did hear American truckers on the CB Band and a message from he Popes flight to our Queen on his flight back home from his early 1980's UK tour.
You may be disapointed if you take such a radio to Germany as in a few months time they are switching off all their analogue television networks on both the VHF & UHF bands

turret_tuner · 13th Aug 2005, 2:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies

You may be disapointed if you take such a radio to Germany as in a few months time they are switching off all their analogue television networks on both the VHF & UHF bands

Really? ALL German analogue TV being switched off so soon? That's a worrying precedent that the UK government can use for switching off UK analogue TV sooner rather than later.

Anyway, Stephanie, even if you get to Germany before the analogue switch off, you may find you cannot receive all the German analogue TV frequencies, because the European TV frequency bands are different from the US ones. Likewise the TV channel numbers shown on your American radio will not correspond to the German channel numbers (unless one or two do by coincidence). You should receive something though - if you're not too late.

oldeurope · 13th Aug 2005, 8:32 am

Yes in my region there is only DVBT on UHF.
The analog ARD program on ch 9 from Langenberg is still there and it
will be for the next two years.
In "West" gremany the low VHF frequencys were never used for TV.

In the 50th there were some sets with TV sound. But I don't know a
superhet. Maybe the Tonfunk. I don't know the english word for "Pendelaudion".
There was an only vision TV set from "Tonfunk".

I have a prewar radio set with TV sound but most importand parts of the
inside are missing. It is scraped.

On my last trip to spain, I found a little portable radio with FM and TV sound.
I think they left away the input filter for mirror frequency. It was a ceap
import set. There was no special switch for the TV sound only the FM AM
switch and the FM scale had added some low VHF TV channels.

Kind regards
Darius

paulsherwin · 13th Aug 2005, 12:17 pm

In the 1980s Roberts made a radio which would pick up UHF TV sound (and nothing else IIRC). I think it was a contract job for the 'Radios for the Blind' charity. They crop up on eBay occasionally. Paul Stenning has a photo of one at the bottom of this page: http://www.vintage-radio.com/manufac.../roberts.shtml

Best regards, Paul

12th Aug 2005, 9:24 pm	#1
stephanie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Bern, North Carolina, USA Posts: 346	Radios with a TV-Audio band Were these ever popular in Britain or even the rest of Europe? Here in the West, some portable radios are sold with a so-called TV band that picks up audio from the VHF television channels 2 to 6 and then 7 to 13. The regular broadcast FM band is between channels 6 and 7, which is why the TV band is split into two sections. Were radios like this ever sold in Britain? And if I were to take one of these sets to - say Germany, for instance. Would it still work properly on that band?

12th Aug 2005, 9:58 pm	#2
joe Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Edgware, North London. Posts: 307	Re: Radios with a TV-Audio band Hi Stephanie I don't know if they were popular, but they certainly did exist. I actually have a couple. In the late thirties when the UK, or at least London, had a 405 line system the sound went out on, I believe, 41.5 MHz AM. Just about within the capabilities of the valves available at the time. I seem to recall that the selectivity was fairly poor, so the TV sound was always mixed with frame sync pulses. Joe

12th Aug 2005, 10:09 pm	#3
SPCh Rest in Peace Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Posts: 345	Re: Radios with a TV-Audio band Yes, that's right, Joe; but it wasn't at 41.5 MHz (Hz hadn't been invented, then), or even at 41.5 Mc/s (which had been) but on a waveLENGTH of (about) 7.2 metres. Those who did not know (and that was many if not most) wndered why the BBC went to the trouble of transmitting it TWICE, once on meters, and once on Megacycles.

12th Aug 2005, 10:37 pm	#4
Panrock Nonode Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 2,533	Re: Radios with a TV-Audio band My '38 motor-tuned Defiant MSH 938 has a 'TEL' band for television sound. I have fired it up from my local Ch1 ring main and it works quite well, with no vision-on-sound, though it's fairly insensitive and apt to drift if the AFC feature isn't selected. Once I visited Russia with a small western radio and I could pick up the sound from one of their VHF TV channels very well on its FM band. Steve

13th Aug 2005, 12:42 am	#5
Hybrid tellies Nonode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area. Posts: 2,965	Re: Radios with a TV-Audio band In the 1980's there were some small handheld portables that covered the CB band, and almost continuous coverage from 54Mhz all the way upto 160Mhz. I could hear our BBC1 sound from the 405 line network until 1985 when they shut 405 down. These radios were very basic were easily overloaded and suffered horrendous image breakthrough problems. But saying that I did hear American truckers on the CB Band and a message from he Popes flight to our Queen on his flight back home from his early 1980's UK tour. You may be disapointed if you take such a radio to Germany as in a few months time they are switching off all their analogue television networks on both the VHF & UHF bands __________________ Simon BVWS member

13th Aug 2005, 8:32 am	#7
oldeurope Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Solingen, Germany Posts: 727	Re: Radios with a TV-Audio band Yes in my region there is only DVBT on UHF. The analog ARD program on ch 9 from Langenberg is still there and it will be for the next two years. In "West" gremany the low VHF frequencys were never used for TV. In the 50th there were some sets with TV sound. But I don't know a superhet. Maybe the Tonfunk. I don't know the english word for "Pendelaudion". There was an only vision TV set from "Tonfunk". I have a prewar radio set with TV sound but most importand parts of the inside are missing. It is scraped. On my last trip to spain, I found a little portable radio with FM and TV sound. I think they left away the input filter for mirror frequency. It was a ceap import set. There was no special switch for the TV sound only the FM AM switch and the FM scale had added some low VHF TV channels. Kind regards Darius

13th Aug 2005, 12:17 pm	#8
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: Radios with a TV-Audio band In the 1980s Roberts made a radio which would pick up UHF TV sound (and nothing else IIRC). I think it was a contract job for the 'Radios for the Blind' charity. They crop up on eBay occasionally. Paul Stenning has a photo of one at the bottom of this page: http://www.vintage-radio.com/manufac.../roberts.shtml Best regards, Paul