UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

SteveCG · 3rd Jan 2019, 1:49 pm

Can somebody tell me when the use of the SCA/RBDS services (that is, those above the stereo components) on VHF/FM radio first started in the UK?

G8HQP Dave · 3rd Jan 2019, 2:14 pm

RDS (RDBS is the later American version) was defined by EBU in 1984, according to Wikipedia. This site says it was used in the UK from the early 90s. However, this site says that the first car radio with RDS appeared in 1988. According to this article RDS was already being rolled out by the BBC in 1989.

Nuvistor · 3rd Jan 2019, 2:26 pm

The car I had in 1992 had an RDS radio, I found it very useful.

John_BS · 3rd Jan 2019, 6:09 pm

Wrotham experiments took place in c 1987.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1987_17

John

G6Tanuki · 3rd Jan 2019, 7:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

The car I had in 1992 had an RDS radio, I found it very useful.

Yes, I had a RDS radio in my 1993 Granada: it was good, if only because it helped me identify the 'DX' stations when I was travelling to the more-remote extremities of the UK.

The traffic-news available via the RDS "EON" feature several times saved me from sitting in a many-hour-long tailback on M6 or M1.

As someone who's always been more interested in hearing a station than listening to it I thought the RDS station-ID data display on the radio was brilliant. "It's stopped its seek and is saying Wyvern which is in Worcestershire, but I'm in Ayrshire! Must be a lift on".

I always found it annoying that few UK RDS-enabled stations also included the 'program content' flags - the News/Pop/Culture/Jazz/Classical/Talk/Sport indicators that were defined under the RDS protocol. They were extensively used in continental Europe.

Graham G3ZVT · 3rd Jan 2019, 11:03 pm

It is also possible to get "clever" with the station name field, and have an animated message scrolling round. No doubt outlawed by OFCOM, but I did see it done once by a pirate near Birmingham.

Jonster · 4th Jan 2019, 11:38 am

Ford were the first major manufacturer to start fitting RDS radios to the majority of their cars in the UK towards the end of 1990 for the 1991 model year. This catalysed the use of RDS in the commercial radio market and it took off pretty quickly from that point onwards.

SteveCG · 4th Jan 2019, 12:47 pm

I asked the question because I've been thinking about the various sources of intermodulation in the (long) overall chain from the 'live performance' studio to the listening chair at home. I've noticed that different VHF/FM tuner makers employed differing pre and post decoder filtering, and was speculating on the impact that the introduction of RDS and SCA had on producing audible 'curiosities'.

boxdoctor · 4th Jan 2019, 1:07 pm

I have always understood that S.C.A. in the American meaning was for a sub-carrier to play in-store 'Muzak' on a subscription basis. Dates back a long way (?50s?).
I once saw an article in an old american radio magazine describing the building of an "S.C.A. Adaptor" to fit to one's home F.M.tuner to get free background music. This was in the days before F.M. was available in the U.K. Tony

G8HQP Dave · 4th Jan 2019, 1:16 pm

RDS is unlikely to do much damage to the audio, provided that the tuner has wide and smooth enough IF bandwidth. In the stereo decoder the 53kHz stuff will be moved down to 19kHz, where the pilot tone filter should get rid of it. Even when pilot tone cancellation was used there should still be an HF rolloff.

My guess is that it would only leak through into the audio in lower quality receivers, which will have other problems anyway.

3rd Jan 2019, 1:49 pm	#1
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,495	UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use Can somebody tell me when the use of the SCA/RBDS services (that is, those above the stereo components) on VHF/FM radio first started in the UK?

3rd Jan 2019, 2:14 pm	#2
G8HQP Dave Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 4,872	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use RDS (RDBS is the later American version) was defined by EBU in 1984, according to Wikipedia. This site says it was used in the UK from the early 90s. However, this site says that the first car radio with RDS appeared in 1988. According to this article RDS was already being rolled out by the BBC in 1989.

3rd Jan 2019, 2:26 pm	#3
Nuvistor Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 9,432	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use The car I had in 1992 had an RDS radio, I found it very useful. __________________ Frank

3rd Jan 2019, 6:09 pm	#4
John_BS Octode Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wincanton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 1,780	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use Wrotham experiments took place in c 1987. https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1987_17 John

3rd Jan 2019, 11:03 pm	#6
Graham G3ZVT Dekatron Join Date: May 2010 Location: Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 18,711	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use It is also possible to get "clever" with the station name field, and have an animated message scrolling round. No doubt outlawed by OFCOM, but I did see it done once by a pirate near Birmingham. __________________ -- Graham. G3ZVT

4th Jan 2019, 11:38 am	#7
Jonster Heptode Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 671	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use Ford were the first major manufacturer to start fitting RDS radios to the majority of their cars in the UK towards the end of 1990 for the 1991 model year. This catalysed the use of RDS in the commercial radio market and it took off pretty quickly from that point onwards.

4th Jan 2019, 12:47 pm	#8
SteveCG Nonode Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 2,495	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use I asked the question because I've been thinking about the various sources of intermodulation in the (long) overall chain from the 'live performance' studio to the listening chair at home. I've noticed that different VHF/FM tuner makers employed differing pre and post decoder filtering, and was speculating on the impact that the introduction of RDS and SCA had on producing audible 'curiosities'.

4th Jan 2019, 1:07 pm	#9
boxdoctor Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ripley, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 785	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use I have always understood that S.C.A. in the American meaning was for a sub-carrier to play in-store 'Muzak' on a subscription basis. Dates back a long way (?50s?). I once saw an article in an old american radio magazine describing the building of an "S.C.A. Adaptor" to fit to one's home F.M.tuner to get free background music. This was in the days before F.M. was available in the U.K. Tony

4th Jan 2019, 1:16 pm	#10
G8HQP Dave Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 4,872	Re: UK VHF/FM radio SCA/RBDS first use RDS is unlikely to do much damage to the audio, provided that the tuner has wide and smooth enough IF bandwidth. In the stereo decoder the 53kHz stuff will be moved down to 19kHz, where the pilot tone filter should get rid of it. Even when pilot tone cancellation was used there should still be an HF rolloff. My guess is that it would only leak through into the audio in lower quality receivers, which will have other problems anyway.