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Old 8th Jan 2020, 10:52 pm   #21
MotorBikeLes
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

Sorry, but something seems to be missing. Ventilation. If you put cellotex under ceiling, it becomes MORE important. Best is a pitched roof wooden shed, with vents near apex.Do not keep stuff in plastic boxes unless covered, use wooden ones. been there, got ALL the Tee Shirts.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 12:17 am   #22
The Philpott
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

..Equipment which includes an old leather case or carrying handle should never be in an airtight container- leather can carry a large amount of water which departs as it warms up.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 9:09 am   #23
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

As a side note I took the alternative solution which was to duke it out with Mrs Bungle until she gave in. It’s now in the living room, in the hall cupboard and under the bed. This is the best solution for the problem and cheaper than insulating a shed. Unless it leads to divorce which is probably more expensive

The shed is one of the worst inventions of the human race if you ask me. It adds more problems.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 9:40 am   #24
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

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Originally Posted by The Philpott View Post
...As pointed out above, if you have a garage in a block there is always the neighbouring ones to worry about. In my previous place the run of guttering had sprung a leak at the neighbour's garage, and rather than renew it (really cheaply), he or she had drilled a hole at the base of the wall to allow the water on their floor to run through onto my floor- an inch of it on a bad day. Having rammed the hole full of my favourite hard mortar, i built a miniature coffer dam around it with a few bricks, so that when they drilled through the wall again the water stayed put. They then repaired the guttering, but it took a year for everything to -relatively- dry out.

Dave
That's awful! My plot is on the end of a row of 4. On one side is an open plot with neighbours caravan parked on it. The right side has a high (8-10ft?) hedge which shields the backs of the houses beyond. This runs at an angle with the right back corner of the roof of the garage coming into contact with overhanging vegetation. However, at the back there is a mound of earth covered in grass rising 18in or so immediately from the back of the garage to the neighbours garden and I suspect most of the water rolls of that during the rain and makes ingress somewhere near the back. The garage is a pre-fab which stands directly on the concrete base so there must be gaps at the bottom and although there is a small cement 'ramp' on the inside around the perimieter (with the exception of the door where there is a wooden batten across the floor, the water still gets in somehow. I sealed the left hand side where most of the water seemed to be coming in, but now it seems to be coming in from the right!

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Do not keep stuff in plastic boxes unless covered, use wooden ones. been there, got ALL the Tee Shirts.
Les.
I would be interested to know more about this, i.e what problems does this cause? I would have thought that a sealed plastic container with some silica gel in it (with the exception of the leather scenario mentioned by Philpott) would be very dry and therefore ideal?

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..Equipment which includes an old leather case or carrying handle should never be in an airtight container- leather can carry a large amount of water which departs as it warms up.
Thanks for that. Noted.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 11:12 am   #25
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

I have a 12' x 8' all-wooden workshop which I built from a large number of estate agent's thick plywood "For Sale" signs (4'x3' each) that I acquired cheaply from a timber yard, 30 years ago. I partially lined it with carpet underlay, overlaid with hardboard sheets. The exterior was painted with some gloss paint that was to hand, and then, apart from the two (reclaimed scrap) windows, covered with roofing felt.
The base is a frame made out of four pieces of 9"x3" timber, and stands on four brick pillars approximately 1 foot off the ground.
It's not pretty, but was comparitively cheap to build, been up 30 years this year, and never a real damp problem yet. Tony.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 12:02 pm   #26
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

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The worst type of shed for equipment is one with a concrete floor without a DPC. (AKA a sponge)
Dave

I would concur with this. Back in the summer I built a brick generator shed with a concrete floor. During the recent wet spell the floor was awash. I think a mixture of upwards seepage and condensation. Project for when the weather gets better is a DP layer and some wall lining.
I have two Lidget concrete slab built buildings with concrete bases/floors. Ok, it does get damp in them, but I've never had a problem with water coming up so badly through the concrete bases as to lie "awash" there. They're thick, sturdy bases. Maybe drainage around your base is a secondary issue? How thick are the bases? Mine are about 10 inches. Is water getting in through other means?
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 12:19 pm   #27
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

I certainly think 10 inches of concrete would stop water getting through.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 1:59 pm   #28
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

Re Tony's Workshop [p25*] I have an 8x6 shed in Rammy. I bought it [very cheap] in 1991 as a "stop gap". There's power from an over-head cable on a catenary wire, via a fused spur near the back door that isolates the shed and outside lights-it's usually switched off! This was never intended to be a radio workshop and is not insulated or heated [usually] Some of the rougher electrical gear is stored out there though, along with tools, garden stuff etc but nothing delicate. I put in shelves made from 2" floor joists obtained when the Church across the street was itself re-cycled into apartments... they don't bend [and neither do the shelves ] Although on the way out with a pronounced lean and overall deterioration it's still there. It was the only shed I ever bought and they knocked it together in a few minutes!

My point here is that I twigged it was a self perpetuating industry and why. Whether you are painting or doing some other work it's often said that "preparation is the secret". The guys would have been happy to just place it directly on the cobbled area of my yard [where it was going] but I'd built a sub frame, from those joists on edge, wrapped around with some remnants of the visquene blue damp proof plastic liner I had. Over the years some deterioration to the frame has taken place and been corrected but water damage has never reached the, quite insubstantial shed floor. If I was to do something similar now it would be a stronger shed floor on a sub-frame, itself raised blocks or bricks away from the ground. It was clear that punters were told to prepare with flags or with a thin concrete base put down. That would guarantee a rotted out shed and a replacement being needed, a few years later. When you look at the fascinating new [often American] Micro-Homes that are featured on You Tube, built for economy and flexibility, they are either on trailers or raised by short legs mounted on concrete blocks. The building doesn't touch the ground! Most of ours do!

Dave W

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Old 9th Jan 2020, 2:06 pm   #29
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

Does anyone else have problems with shed and mice?

I tend not store equipment in my shed, but I did put a box into the shed containing all of my mains cable and flex. A family of mice occupied the box, didn't try eating the cable, but just left it nicely contaminated with lots of mouse waste.

I have seen a couple of examples where mice took a nibble out of rubbery/ plastic items, and sometimes, even just a nibble can do significant damage.

I have sometimes put traps down, but I worry that I just happen to be killing off some rare species of mouse

B
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 2:43 pm   #30
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

I used to manufacture timber sheds and erect them for a living, best if the underside is at least 150mm above "ground" level, also best if the support blocks are on a concrete slab or paving slabs or at the very least on a decent thickness of hardcore.

Sheds lined on the external face of the studs with a breather membrane are better.

If doing self assembly then level supports are essential, if not then nothing will fit properly.

Any "ground" contact timbers should be pressure treated to B.S whatever.

This was my preferred regime....Concrete base with slight slope in favour of drainage, then concrete blocks set level at intervals to suit supporting the floor joists, a piece of DPC for joist/block interface.

If you have an old concrete floor with no DPM the easiest way to stop the damp from below is to install a floating floor on top of a DPM on top of the old concrete floor, inward opening doors can usually be reduced in height to accommodate that, floating floor consists of DPM then slab insulation then T&G chipboard (the greenish moisture resistant stuff) Allow for expansion at floor edges commensurate with the floor area.

Also, depending on your location take account of any anchoring that might be needed....sheds can fly

Galvanised gate bands set into concrete make good anchors.

Lawrence.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 2:59 pm   #31
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

My workshop is a brick outbuilding, with said concrete floor. I have some drainage issues around it - which I plan to address properly in the spring by installing a drainage system.

The concrete floor does "wick" water up, and I can see where the floor is cracked, the edges of the crack show damp when the rain is at its worst.

Once Ive fixed the drainage issues, The solution I plan to deploy for this is to fill the small crack, then either:

1) Epoxy screed over the floor, and damp proof injections into the brick work around the edges

2) Install thick lino, seal the edges up to the bricks, and same damp proof injections.

As both involve vacating the room , I might as well go with option 1 and never have to worry again.

I have added a "lean-to" shelter thingy between the workshop and the house, which also replaced the roof on it. I plan to enclose this space in, which will also make 2 of the walls less exposed to elements. I have fitted a false ceiling and insulated that, and for the "exposed" walls I might add some thin external insulation.

Given I have an 18 month old at home, and a whole house that needs renovating, I will probably complete the above tasks in around: NEVER
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 3:09 pm   #32
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

Back on 16th Feb. last year I raised a thread "Rescued Test Equipment" along with another related thread "Sad Times".
The shed conditions I encountered were way beyond folks experiences here. The resultant state of the test equipment was almost terminal. Thoughts & lessons :- Sad as it may be, if some folks(of advanced years &/or subject to health problems) are experiencing difficulties in heating old sheds & accessing them regularly in the winter months, then perhaps they should seek help from nearby vintage radio enthusiasts. Likewise, if you know of some poor old chap who has these problems, then please consider helping him. The amateur radio fraternity refer to deceased chums as "Silent Keys". But more often than not, its then discovered that a heap of their stuff has been squirreled away in damp lofts, sheds, garages, etc. unbeknown to family members & friends. As was the case with the old chap who I used to work with, and who died this time last year.

Regards, David
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 6:54 pm   #33
MotorBikeLes
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

WavyDipole. I made a minor boob there. I meant to write "Linn Bins", but instead put plastic boxes, without adding "Open topped".
They get condensation which sits at the bottom and corrodes anything it can.
A wooden equivalent will absorb the water which in due course evaporates from its outer surfaces.
Les.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 8:08 pm   #34
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

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Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ View Post
Does anyone else have problems with shed and mice?

I tend not store equipment in my shed, but I did put a box into the shed containing all of my mains cable and flex. A family of mice occupied the box, didn't try eating the cable, but just left it nicely contaminated with lots of mouse waste.

I have seen a couple of examples where mice took a nibble out of rubbery/ plastic items, and sometimes, even just a nibble can do significant damage.

I have sometimes put traps down, but I worry that I just happen to be killing off some rare species of mouse

B
The shed seems pretty mouse-proof, but the garage is something else. In there I store air conditioning flexible ducting for a client project. Cats are essential, otherwise, mice take up residence in the cosy thermally insulated ducting. It’s the urine smell that’s the main problem. Otherwise, insulation nibbling can be destructive. For 6 months last year, we were without cats and the mouse problems grew large. Now we have a couple of efficient mousers and all is well. We just have to cope with frequent deliveries of corpses into the house.

Martin
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 8:38 pm   #35
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by evingar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Philpott View Post
The worst type of shed for equipment is one with a concrete floor without a DPC. (AKA a sponge)
Dave

I would concur with this. Back in the summer I built a brick generator shed with a concrete floor. During the recent wet spell the floor was awash. I think a mixture of upwards seepage and condensation. Project for when the weather gets better is a DP layer and some wall lining.
I have two Lidget concrete slab built buildings with concrete bases/floors. Ok, it does get damp in them, but I've never had a problem with water coming up so badly through the concrete bases as to lie "awash" there. They're thick, sturdy bases. Maybe drainage around your base is a secondary issue? How thick are the bases? Mine are about 10 inches. Is water getting in through other means?

The floor isn't that thick - maybe 5" and the bottom of that is rammed rubble. The structure is built on strip foundations so the floor doesn't support the structure. It's difficult to know where else the water is coming from, certainly not through the roof or the walls.

With respect to my main workshop - It's an extension to the house built to latest building regs. The cost was circa 15K but on the positive side it could easily be converted to an extra bedroom and so increase the value of the house. Formally my workshop was a wooden shed in the garden . It was lined and reasonably dry but I still got surface rust appearing on equipment and it was an unpleasant place to work for extended periods in winter.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 9:56 pm   #36
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

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Does anyone else have problems with shed and mice?
Yes. This ended up in problems multiplying. The cat my wife bought was completely useless. It just played with the mice, made them a bit wet and made me chase the damn things around with a two-by-four while it sat there sniggering to itself in the sun. Effectively it was just another mouth to feed.

Also make sure you set traps outside. Don't bait traps inside the shed. That just gets them all excited and they never leave.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 10:10 pm   #37
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

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The cat my wife bought was completely useless. It just played with the mice, made them a bit wet and made me chase the damn things around with a two-by-four while it sat there sniggering to itself in the sun.
Cats with new humans deliberately don't kill their prey as they are trying to train the humans to catch things. The sniggering will have been representative of despair at your pathetic attempts with the two-by-four.

Alan
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 10:20 pm   #38
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Default Re: Sheds, damp and test equipment

I suspect you are right there. I got good at it though. I don't recommend it. Difficult to clean up!
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 10:34 pm   #39
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We had a short haired ginger cat for years, a female, a total snuffer of mice and rats...no prisoners, she used to kill and bring back rabbits almost as big as herself as well, almost on a daily basis during peak rabbit rabbit season...Paws was her name, RIP Paws.

Shed on blocks at a decent height (as mentioned earlier) is good for rodent snuffing cat access as well.

Lawrence.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 10:45 pm   #40
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Paws obviously didn't think you needed training!
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