Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise - Page 5 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Station X · 17th Feb 2016, 4:11 pm

I suspect the OP just followed with the pictures, but let's not forget this player had been got at before the OP started work on it.

Both Michael's and Nick's pictures in posts #45 and post #50 show the horizontal cap.

Looks like there may be two different wiring arrangements for this player.

If the OP can trace the wire or wires to his can capacitor we should have an answer.

Lucien Nunes · 17th Feb 2016, 4:12 pm

Terminology: The row of solder tags is a tagstrip, not a rail. By rail (e.g. 'negative rail') we mean a notional interconnection buss to which all negative points are connected. They may be anywhere on the tagstrips or around the set but all connected together somehow.

Station X · 17th Feb 2016, 4:13 pm

We're cross posting, but singing from the same hymn sheet!

Removing the cap will make no difference at all! It isn't connected!

Nickthedentist · 17th Feb 2016, 4:30 pm

Anyone actually got a Cavalier to hand to take a pic? Mine's stashed in a loft somewhere and not very easy to retrieve.

martinpinner · 17th Feb 2016, 6:06 pm

I have attached a photo of the can showing the wires running to Tag 16 R15 1.5K. Orange goes to the bottom tag and red to the top.The other photo shows a resistor that is wired to Tag 6 and SKT6. I identified this as 4.7K and replaced as the original gave a poor reading. However, now that I have fitted all the components I now have a R16 4.7K fitted to Tag 8. Are both resistors required? With regard to testing voltage on the valves. Is this dangerous?

Station X · 17th Feb 2016, 6:45 pm

The caps in the Can will be C11 and C12, so the cap running horizontally in your pictures is redundant.

The only 4.7K resistor I can see in the circuit diagram is R16. Assuming you're numbering your tags from bottom left and right to left, The resistor on tag 6 is grounded via the earthed tag. The resistor on tag 8 doesn't appear to be doing anything as its upper end is unconnected.

If tag 8 is the correct position for R16 it should be wired in parallel with the adjacent capacitor C14. Wires would then go from each end of the resistor to the appropriate sockets.

The resistor on tag 6 looks a better bet as it's wired away to two sockets, one end directly and the other via the white wire. You'll need to remove the wire link which earths one end of it and connect C14 in parallel with it as per the original wiring.

Taking voltage readings is not dangerous so long as you act carefully.

Turn the player off and disconnect it from the mains.

Connect a black lead terminated in a croc clip to the negative terminal of your meter and select a voltage range.

Clip the croc clip to the player's chassis, making sure it makes good contact.

Connect a red lead to the positive terminal of your meter, It's a good idea to sleeve as much of the probe as possible if this hasn't already been done. It will stop you shorting tags together.

Plug in the player, switch on and let it warm up.

Put one hand in you pocket and hold the probe in you other hand.

Probe tags as necessary and note the readings.

A good place to start is by taking readings on the positive sides of C8, C11 and C12. You'll never get anywhere if there's no HT voltage.

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 11:22 am

Thanks for the information.I will use R16 on Tag 6 and connect to C14 as advised.I presume that this is done on both the top/bottom tags. To remove the connection to the earth as suggested do I remove the wire connection across Tag 6.What I find strange is that I have gone from sound with a loud noise to no sound by just fitting C14 100pf 630V /R10 10K/R16 4.7K and fitting the capacitors with the correct polarity.With regard to testing voltage I will have to get some croc clips and make a negative lead to attach to my digital multimeter as it only has probes.

Station X · 18th Feb 2016, 11:38 am

I'm a bit stuck here, as all the pictures submitted show R16 and C14 mounted across the tag strip with white wires going to the sockets. The clearest example of this is in the picture attached to post #45.

I've no idea how the alternative arrangement was wired.

You could:-

Remove the wire link across tags 6.

Link lower tag 6 to lower tag 7.

Run a wire from upper tag 7 to the right hand end of R16.

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 12:16 pm

Thanks. The photo in post 45 I believe is related to the components in the GP42 not the GP15 based on the component lists I have.As the R16 fitted from Tag 6 does not seem to conform perhaps it would be better to remove this and leave R16 on Tag 8 but link with C14 on Tag 7.What do you think?

Station X · 18th Feb 2016, 12:18 pm

Looking at your first picture in post #85, there's no evidence that C14 100pF was ever fitted to the tag strip. The tags look quite clean.

Is it possible that it was wired directly across the sockets or perhaps not fitted at all?

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 12:59 pm

C14 was not fitted but I have added this based on information received. However on the components list there are references to C14. It says that C14 was deleted from its original position and C14 is now 100pf fitted across R16 O/P Trans Type 10228. My O/P is 10228.

Station X · 18th Feb 2016, 1:24 pm

In that case wire it directly across R16, as it will save a bit of wiring. That's the R16 connected to tag 6.

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 3:58 pm

Thanks once again. I have now fitted across Tags 6 and 7 as suggested.Connected to turntable and switched on. It started to crackle after about 5 minutes and after 10 minutes the loud noise kicked in again. I switched off for a while and then switched back on and started trying to get the pick up arm adjustment correct.The volume was so low but this could be due to the Ronette cartridge needing to be replaced.I have a new cartridge from Musonic BSR-X5M that I have not fitted as I was waiting on getting the pick up adjustments done first with the Ronette. However, I thought I would fit the replacement to see if this corrected the volume. Unfortunately the screw on the headshell does not fit the new cartridge and I could not fit. Can someone help with the size of screw required or will it be just a trip to a hardware store.
I am now back to trying to solve the loud noise but at the moment it is not there immediately it is switched on.

Station X · 18th Feb 2016, 4:45 pm

Can you post a picture of the tag strip R16, C14 etc. as it looks now so we can check it's wired correctly please.

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 5:22 pm

Will get this to you tomorrow.

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 5:53 pm

Here is the photo of the rewiring of R16

Station X · 18th Feb 2016, 7:47 pm

Looks like you've shorted out R16! The new wire needs to go to the other end of C14 and should be insulated.

Get rid of those off cuts of wire too. If left floating around they're sure to short something out.

martinpinner · 18th Feb 2016, 8:13 pm

Thanks.

Radio_Dave · 18th Feb 2016, 10:29 pm

The link between C8 and R10 looks like it's been cut.

David

Lucien Nunes · 18th Feb 2016, 10:49 pm

I still think some voltage readings would be helpful! The idea of troubleshooting or changing out any parts in anything electronic without knowing what is happening electrically is very strange to me, like a doctor prescribing medicine without examining the patient. When I fire any chassis up for the first time, I'll have all the important voltages checked within 15 seconds of the HT coming up, in case something is badly amiss that could damage a valve or transformer. Once I know everything is in the right ballpark, a more leisurely investigation can follow.

17th Feb 2016, 4:11 pm	#81
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise I suspect the OP just followed with the pictures, but let's not forget this player had been got at before the OP started work on it. Both Michael's and Nick's pictures in posts #45 and post #50 show the horizontal cap. Looks like there may be two different wiring arrangements for this player. If the OP can trace the wire or wires to his can capacitor we should have an answer. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

17th Feb 2016, 4:12 pm	#82
Lucien Nunes Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2,508	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Terminology: The row of solder tags is a tagstrip, not a rail. By rail (e.g. 'negative rail') we mean a notional interconnection buss to which all negative points are connected. They may be anywhere on the tagstrips or around the set but all connected together somehow.

17th Feb 2016, 4:13 pm	#83
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise We're cross posting, but singing from the same hymn sheet! Removing the cap will make no difference at all! It isn't connected! __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

17th Feb 2016, 4:30 pm	#84
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Anyone actually got a Cavalier to hand to take a pic? Mine's stashed in a loft somewhere and not very easy to retrieve.

17th Feb 2016, 6:45 pm	#86
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise The caps in the Can will be C11 and C12, so the cap running horizontally in your pictures is redundant. The only 4.7K resistor I can see in the circuit diagram is R16. Assuming you're numbering your tags from bottom left and right to left, The resistor on tag 6 is grounded via the earthed tag. The resistor on tag 8 doesn't appear to be doing anything as its upper end is unconnected. If tag 8 is the correct position for R16 it should be wired in parallel with the adjacent capacitor C14. Wires would then go from each end of the resistor to the appropriate sockets. The resistor on tag 6 looks a better bet as it's wired away to two sockets, one end directly and the other via the white wire. You'll need to remove the wire link which earths one end of it and connect C14 in parallel with it as per the original wiring. Taking voltage readings is not dangerous so long as you act carefully. Turn the player off and disconnect it from the mains. Connect a black lead terminated in a croc clip to the negative terminal of your meter and select a voltage range. Clip the croc clip to the player's chassis, making sure it makes good contact. Connect a red lead to the positive terminal of your meter, It's a good idea to sleeve as much of the probe as possible if this hasn't already been done. It will stop you shorting tags together. Plug in the player, switch on and let it warm up. Put one hand in you pocket and hold the probe in you other hand. Probe tags as necessary and note the readings. A good place to start is by taking readings on the positive sides of C8, C11 and C12. You'll never get anywhere if there's no HT voltage. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Feb 2016, 11:22 am	#87
martinpinner Hexode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 252	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Thanks for the information.I will use R16 on Tag 6 and connect to C14 as advised.I presume that this is done on both the top/bottom tags. To remove the connection to the earth as suggested do I remove the wire connection across Tag 6.What I find strange is that I have gone from sound with a loud noise to no sound by just fitting C14 100pf 630V /R10 10K/R16 4.7K and fitting the capacitors with the correct polarity.With regard to testing voltage I will have to get some croc clips and make a negative lead to attach to my digital multimeter as it only has probes.

18th Feb 2016, 11:38 am	#88
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise I'm a bit stuck here, as all the pictures submitted show R16 and C14 mounted across the tag strip with white wires going to the sockets. The clearest example of this is in the picture attached to post #45. I've no idea how the alternative arrangement was wired. You could:- Remove the wire link across tags 6. Link lower tag 6 to lower tag 7. Run a wire from upper tag 7 to the right hand end of R16. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Feb 2016, 12:16 pm	#89
martinpinner Hexode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 252	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Thanks. The photo in post 45 I believe is related to the components in the GP42 not the GP15 based on the component lists I have.As the R16 fitted from Tag 6 does not seem to conform perhaps it would be better to remove this and leave R16 on Tag 8 but link with C14 on Tag 7.What do you think?

18th Feb 2016, 12:18 pm	#90
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Looking at your first picture in post #85, there's no evidence that C14 100pF was ever fitted to the tag strip. The tags look quite clean. Is it possible that it was wired directly across the sockets or perhaps not fitted at all? __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Feb 2016, 12:59 pm	#91
martinpinner Hexode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 252	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise C14 was not fitted but I have added this based on information received. However on the components list there are references to C14. It says that C14 was deleted from its original position and C14 is now 100pf fitted across R16 O/P Trans Type 10228. My O/P is 10228.

18th Feb 2016, 1:24 pm	#92
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise In that case wire it directly across R16, as it will save a bit of wiring. That's the R16 connected to tag 6. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Feb 2016, 3:58 pm	#93
martinpinner Hexode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 252	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Thanks once again. I have now fitted across Tags 6 and 7 as suggested.Connected to turntable and switched on. It started to crackle after about 5 minutes and after 10 minutes the loud noise kicked in again. I switched off for a while and then switched back on and started trying to get the pick up arm adjustment correct.The volume was so low but this could be due to the Ronette cartridge needing to be replaced.I have a new cartridge from Musonic BSR-X5M that I have not fitted as I was waiting on getting the pick up adjustments done first with the Ronette. However, I thought I would fit the replacement to see if this corrected the volume. Unfortunately the screw on the headshell does not fit the new cartridge and I could not fit. Can someone help with the size of screw required or will it be just a trip to a hardware store. I am now back to trying to solve the loud noise but at the moment it is not there immediately it is switched on.

18th Feb 2016, 4:45 pm	#94
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Can you post a picture of the tag strip R16, C14 etc. as it looks now so we can check it's wired correctly please. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Feb 2016, 5:22 pm	#95
martinpinner Hexode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 252	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Will get this to you tomorrow.

18th Feb 2016, 7:47 pm	#97
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Looks like you've shorted out R16! The new wire needs to go to the other end of C14 and should be insulated. Get rid of those off cuts of wire too. If left floating around they're sure to short something out. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Feb 2016, 8:13 pm	#98
martinpinner Hexode Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 252	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise Thanks.

18th Feb 2016, 10:29 pm	#99
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise The link between C8 and R10 looks like it's been cut. David Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.youtube.com/ My Nixie Clocks

18th Feb 2016, 10:49 pm	#100
Lucien Nunes Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2,508	Re: Hacker Cavalier Loud Noise I still think some voltage readings would be helpful! The idea of troubleshooting or changing out any parts in anything electronic without knowing what is happening electrically is very strange to me, like a doctor prescribing medicine without examining the patient. When I fire any chassis up for the first time, I'll have all the important voltages checked within 15 seconds of the HT coming up, in case something is badly amiss that could damage a valve or transformer. Once I know everything is in the right ballpark, a more leisurely investigation can follow.