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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 7:59 pm   #21
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

There are a number of modulator boxes which have synthesised channel generation and the method of choosing the output channel varies, but the ideal type would be one which uses a parallel dip switch for channel selection, because you can then hook a microcontroller into that and use it to change the output frequency of the modulator at will.

In this case you'd start with something like an Arduino running the off-the-shelf infra-red library, an incredibly powerful library which can both receive and transmit a wide variety of IR signals.

So you would:
Connect video-out on the Tivo to video-in on the modulator. Tune the eight channels on the analogue TV to the first eight output channels on the modulator.

Arrange it so that when the Arduino receives the channel 1 button code from the TV remote (which also selects channel 1 on the TV) it

-Selects modulator output channel 1

-Sends the IR channel select codes to the Tivo to select whatever channel you want to see as channel 1 (BBC1?)

...Repeat for the other seven channels.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 8:16 pm   #22
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

[QUOTE=SiriusHardware;1113341
In this case you'd start with something like an Arduino running the off-the-shelf infra-red library, an incredibly powerful library which can both receive and transmit a wide variety of IR signals.

So you would:
Connect video-out on the Tivo to video-in on the modulator. Tune the eight channels on the analogue TV to the first eight output channels on the modulator.

Arrange it so that when the Arduino receives the channel 1 button code from the TV remote (which also selects channel 1 on the TV) it

-Selects modulator output channel 1

-Sends the IR channel select codes to the Tivo to select whatever channel you want to see as channel 1 (BBC1?)

...Repeat for the other seven channels.[/QUOTE]

What Arduino would I need? I'm looking on their website and they have a whole range of circuits.

Would I also need a separate modulator? Right now I have a VCR for this, which I think can tune in several programmes.

In regards to the remote control, would it have to be ultra sonic input and receiver as the remote is ultrasonic?


Thank you for your help.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 8:21 pm   #23
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Re post 20 "why was that?"[I really can't keep up]. As far as I know there was an assumption of more channels right from the 1950's 405 line days, when a 13 pole rotating selector might be in use with just one station- the Beeb available! It took a very long time to get up to 2, 3 , 4 and then finally five channels! Unless you lived in a spot where you could receive another Transmitter as well, you'd always have a couple of redundant buttons on the TV up until Freeview. I once lived in Hull where we had both Yorkshire TV and Anglia from south of the Humber. Now there's more channels than you can shake a stick at-great eh?

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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 8:45 pm   #24
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

I don't think thirteen-position rotary controls were introduced until the advent of ITV, and the thirteen positions related to the five possible channels assigned to Band I and the eight to Band III. Only two would be of use for the signals from any one transmitter, and the remaining positions may or may not have been populated with the appropriate tuning components on a given set. As long as all positions were populated, it meant that the same set could be used anywhere in the country.

Early sets, before ITV, often had no channel selection at all, being tuned to the BBC Television Service on Band I Channel 1. This is true of my 1950 TR2, though an engineer could retune it from the London transmitter to the Birmingham one at Sutton Coldfield.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 8:46 pm   #25
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Sorry for the questions, it's just I have never had a set this old, so I'm still learning everything about them and I get curious.


I never knew that TVs as far back as the 50s assumed more channels. I just thought it was later 70's sets and early 80s sets which just had extra buttons, knowing that there wasn't more channels in the 70s then there was mid 80s. I've seen early 70s sets with just 1, 2, 3 and 4 or BBC1, 2, ITV1, 2 so I wondered why the sets were altered with more selectors than channels being broadcast.


Thanks for your reply.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 9:18 pm   #26
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

That's likely to be a much better explanation from Dave M. You've explained the 13 channels that weren't really. I'm probably mis-remembering our 12"? 405 line set in the mid 50's [weak CRT picture curtains closed]. It did have ITV and the rotary control [a Clydon tuner perhaps?]. I do recall, as a child, wondering why we had nothing on these empty channels? It came down to 8 later on! Yes I've got at least one early set with no selection option at all.

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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 9:43 pm   #27
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsertNameHere View Post
Oh, maybe a T35 is the best way to? I've seen a couple online for sale, which I could buy.
Having read through the manual for the T35, it looks as though you can programme it to output five programmes on five channels, as long as the original digital channels are spread across no more than three digital multiplexes. You would then programme five of your eight buttons to these channels, enabling you to use the remote of the set to change channels exctly as you would have done when analogue signals were broadcast. Once correctly set up, the T35 would simply sit there pumping out your chosen channels.

If you truly wish to simulate the pre-digital era, you could tune them to BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, CH4 and CH5, as these were the only services available on analogue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsertNameHere View Post
How hard would it be to make it so the TV reception isn't messed with?
Television reception should not be "messed with" using this setup, as long as you use analogue channels that don't interfere with the multiplexes used by the digital channels you wish to use.

Use the coverage checker from the site I referenced above and expand the section "How do I retune?" to check what channels are used by your local multiplexes.

I hope this all makes sense.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 9:52 pm   #28
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Thank you for your help. I'll give the page linked a read.
I would definitely be using BBC1, BB2, ITV, CH4 and CH5 for TV viewing. I will probably use 6, 7 and 8 for misc. inputs like a VCR.

i'll check the coverage after, also.

Thank you for your help! It's really appreciated!
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 10:16 pm   #29
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

I also have a Multiview T35 which is working perfectly after the software upgrade. If you manage to buy one of these you will more than likely have to upgrade the software. I've also set mine to produce teletext pages from the EPG. You won't get full analogue teletext but you will get a program guide. Here is mine working with a Philips teletext portable
https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/communit...gain/paged/13/ Final result is 5 analogue channels with teletext.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 10:36 pm   #30
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

I have seen one online, which is NOS, so I suspect it'll need an upgrade.

I think i will definitely go with a T35 as it seems to be the best option for me as i have very little experience in the field of television.

I also like the idea of "Teletext" too.

Thank you for your help
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 11:18 pm   #31
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

I used to do work in a hotel. They had 6 sky boxes on 6 different channels feeding into a conventional rf tv airial system so normal TVs could be used through the normal remote .
It worked very well infact I use the same set up at my mums house but with 3 skyboxes. Doing it this way she can use her old TV sets and even her old VCR to record. She only uses 3 channels and doing it this way as far as she’s concerned the digital Changover never happened.
It keeps it simple for her as Even using a freview Recorder is impossible for her to learn to use. Anything modern she can’t cope
Sky boxes with rf output can be got for next to nothing these days or even free.
Not sure about the running cost with several boxes but this is a ideal option
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 11:37 pm   #32
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

That could also be a possibility for me, if i have the space. It could possibly be a cost friendlier approach if i could do it with Virgin media boxes as we don't have Sky.

I think however, virgin only does one box per room, which could be an issue with getting them set up, and cost there.

I'll look into it.

Thanks for your help!
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 5:52 am   #33
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

On a set of this era it may be noted that the 8th "VCR" button not only selected the RF output of the VCR but also altered the lock up time of the flywheel line sync to overcome fluctuations caused by the instability of the early VHS VCRs.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 8:58 am   #34
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideband View Post
I also have a Multiview T35 which is working perfectly after the software upgrade. If you manage to buy one of these you will more than likely have to upgrade the software. I've also set mine to produce teletext pages from the EPG. You won't get full analogue teletext but you will get a program guide. Here is mine working with a Philips teletext portable
https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/communit...gain/paged/13/ Final result is 5 analogue channels with teletext.
Thanks for showing us that. When I read in the manual that it does teletext EPG, I was wondering what sort of a job it makes of it.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:53 am   #35
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Hi

Those multiview boxes are great! I have one for my old sets.

Bear in mind the output of the T35 is extremely 'HOT' and will require some attenuation of the signal so it does not overload the TV tuner.

Good luck!

Jan
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 12:18 pm   #36
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

I like the look of the T35. Does it display centre cuttout 4:3 aspect ratio pictures. as most set top boxes do or is it proper 4:3 aspect ratio pictures?
Although its a bit costly for me, nearly £500 I am still tempted.
If I was to get one as well as putting out five analogue channels on UHF I could find away to feed a CBS signal into my Aurura to put out BBC1 or ITV on 405.
I am getting to like this idea and am already making plans to fit it in my workshop.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 12:31 pm   #37
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsertNameHere View Post

In regards to the remote control, would it have to be ultra sonic input and receiver as the remote is ultrasonic?
Yes, but if you can build the hardware side of an ultrasonic receiver, ultrasound in -> TTL-Level data out, the Arduino infra-red library will take care of 'learning' the remote codes from your original ultrasonic remote just as if they were originating from an I/R receiver.

I should say this would be quite a complex project for someone who has never used / programmed an Arduino before. Although the aforementioned I/R library does 90% of the complicated stuff, you'd still have to be comfortably familiar with the Arduino programming environment in general.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 12:50 pm   #38
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

I've just realised that InsertNameHere's project can be simplified to use a fixed single frequency modulator if all 8 of the TV's channels are tuned to the same frequency.

Then, the basic requirement for the project is to take in the ultrasonic channel change command and convert that to an IR command which selects the required channel on the Tivo or other set top box. The modulator does not need to be controlled at all.

The Ultrasonic remote will still change the channels on the TV as well, but no matter what channel you change to, it will still see the output from the modulator.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 3:30 pm   #39
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See post 3...
 
Old 23rd Jan 2019, 9:55 pm   #40
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Default Re: Can channel buttons be put to proper use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies View Post
I like the look of the T35. Does it display centre cuttout 4:3 aspect ratio pictures. as most set top boxes do or is it proper 4:3 aspect ratio pictures?
Although its a bit costly for me, nearly £500 I am still tempted.

£500 Mine was £40...used of course. I'd look on eBay for a used one. Be prepared to upgrade the firmware though.

It has a 4:3 or 16:9 option in the setup menu but as to whether it's just a centre cut-out for 4:3 I'd need to check.
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