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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 1:38 pm   #1
Ryan_1993
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Default What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

I took the back off my 1969 vintage Trinitron to clean it and found this small glass component in the back of the case in the far corner. It seems like it’s come off the rear board for the picture tube looking at a similar component next to it.

The TV is working without it so what is it for and is it essential?
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 1:44 pm   #2
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

It looks like a neon, possibly for flashover protection. If so, it only functions in a fault, over voltage condition to prevent collateral damage.

Ken
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 1:46 pm   #3
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

It is a little neon bulb that acts as a spark gap. Yes, it is essential but you can replace it with an ordinary neon intended for use as a pilot lamp, which are widely available. Without it, much of the set will be ruined if the tube flashes over, which can happen at any time.

The same type is used as the lamp behind the tuning dial, as they age the lead outs seem to rot away and get brittle, then the snap off.

I wouldn't use it again until that's fixed.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 1:58 pm   #4
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Do you have a link where to buy a replacement, eBay just brings up neon arc lamps for industrial application
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 2:24 pm   #5
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Is this suitable?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323453217973
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 3:15 pm   #6
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Like this:

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/neon-...lamps/0105017/

By the way, that first picture doesn't look like a 60s one to me, more like a KV-1330UB or the like. Which model is it?
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 3:46 pm   #7
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

It’s a 1969 MkI version of the KV 132OUB.
The MKII was from around 1973


I ordered this one as those weren’t in stock unfortunately.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F290980336493

I assume it doesn’t matter which way it goes since there is not positive and negative markings?
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 10:29 am   #8
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

The KV-1320UB is the UK model, not announced until 1971 as far as I know. Certainly the reports of its launch in 'Television' magazine bear this out. They had a similar model in Japan and the USA slightly earlier, but not in this country.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 11:36 am   #9
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

When I get a set I always date it based on date codes. The internet (in general) can be years off, and models were often made for several years.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 12:10 pm   #10
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
When I get a set I always date it based on date codes. The internet (in general) can be years off, and models were often made for several years.
I was just going off what the British Science Museum has listed on their website as they have one of these TVs in their collection on display.

You would think something like the science musuem would know
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 12:12 pm   #11
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

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Originally Posted by Studio263 View Post
The KV-1320UB is the UK model, not announced until 1971 as far as I know. Certainly the reports of its launch in 'Television' magazine bear this out. They had a similar model in Japan and the USA slightly earlier, but not in this country.
Are those bulbs what I ordered okay BTW? I’ve never needed to do this before. Unfortunately, the contacts off the bulb originally inside is completely broken off so that couldn’t be repaired or anything.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 2:25 pm   #12
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
When I get a set I always date it based on date codes. The internet (in general) can be years off, and models were often made for several years.
I was just going off what the British Science Museum has listed on their website as they have one of these TVs in their collection on display.

You would think something like the science musuem would know
You can't count on that, for several reasons. Most the same reasons you can't count on dates on the internet being right. Also, dating one set doesn't date another set. If a particular model was manufactured from 1969 to 1972, you still have to date the particular set that you have. Often it isn't even known exactly, also not to museum conservators, what the exact manufacture period was. Details like model suffixes (such as UB) can be overlooked or not mentioned in the literature. You won't get there by literature study only, and you can't know through what effort the conservator did or didn't go and if he or she has only general or very specific knowledge on a particular item. There is only one way to find out when a set was manufactured and that is examining it closely. Depending on the manufacturer there will always be some degree of uncertainty, even then.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 5:43 pm   #13
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_1993 View Post
You would think something like the science musuem would know
Sadly they don't, when I've been round some of the dates and descriptions are miles out. It's a fun game to play when up there, most glaring error wins. For example, the set in the picture of theirs you posted is either a KV-1320UB mkII or a KV-1330UB (assuming that its a UK model), introduced in 1972. Note that the brightness and v-hold knobs are on the top; on the original one they are on the side. Inside, they are a completely different set, much more modern. There, that's one mistake already, they don't know everything down there.

The reference I trust is the dates on the service sheets; Sony normally print them on the back page.

If your KV-1320UB is an early one it will have only three cables between the main chassis and the transformer in the rear part of the cabinet. It will also have an 800mA fuse in the wiring to the line output stage, near the tags of the outside of the LOPT can. This was deleted early in production since it was unnecessary. It still can't be any older than 1971 though.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 9:20 pm   #14
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Even with dates on service sheets, it's always the question: was the sheet published near the end of production or right at the start? In case of sony, I think they print the date also on the back of the additional / revised sheets and those are recognisable by their code number so dating a model or even an example based on service sheets would give a reasonably accurate time frame, maybe except for the end of production.

On the other hand, for example Philips didn't mention dates in their service manuals, but foldable schematics will mostly have the date code of the last revision at the time of print. Sometimes in a somewhat cryptic looking 3 digit format.

In any case, the service sheet will mostly give a date that lies within the production period.

Last edited by Maarten; 4th Jan 2019 at 9:32 pm.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 11:04 pm   #15
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

There is quite a range of strike voltages for those small neons, it can be anywhere from around 60V to 95V. I tested a few of them from different sources a few years back from different Ebay suppliers. I was using one as a pilot light for a radio powered by 90V

The usual idea of the neon is to place it in the grid -cathode circuits of the CRT to limit the voltage in fault conditions that could damage the gun and they were often seen in the gun bias circuits of some TV's and scopes.

In some cases they were used as voltage stabilizers too and it was normal for them to be glowing with the apparatus in use. I think there was at least one model of Telequipment scope where they were used in that manner.

The ones in the photos appear to have wider electrodes than the common kind and most likely they were for a protective over-voltage clamping design.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 10:54 am   #16
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

I have "played around " with these devices before, it was many years ago and I thought too that they were some kind of neon, as far as I remember I could not get them to work like a neon lamp when set up in the correct manner, they produced a purple-ish sort of glow IIRC and I'm not sure what their strike and maintaining voltages were as I was a lot lot younger and not so educated in this field back then!

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Old 5th Jan 2019, 10:56 am   #17
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argus25 View Post
There is quite a range of strike voltages for those small neons, it can be anywhere from around 60V to 95V. I tested a few of them from different sources a few years back from different Ebay suppliers. I was using one as a pilot light for a radio powered by 90V

The usual idea of the neon is to place it in the grid -cathode circuits of the CRT to limit the voltage in fault conditions that could damage the gun and they were often seen in the gun bias circuits of some TV's and scopes.

In some cases they were used as voltage stabilizers too and it was normal for them to be glowing with the apparatus in use. I think there was at least one model of Telequipment scope where they were used in that manner.

The ones in the photos appear to have wider electrodes than the common kind and most likely they were for a protective over-voltage clamping design.
Well I really don’t know what to do here then. If the voltage isn’t going to be right for the neon bulb I’ve bought I assume its completely pointless installing it?

Since no one can really tell me which one to get and what 100 percent it even is, online doesn’t produce any useful results really either given the age of the TV set, I’ll probably just leave it without it and if the tv eventually breaks no worries. I can always install a 1990s Trinitron CRT set in the vintage cabinet in the future I suppose. I also don’t think the original neon could be fixed as the leadouts have completely broken off.

If or when I get the correct component it’ll be easy to install. Just a case of finding the right thing, so frustrating.

Last edited by Ryan_1993; 5th Jan 2019 at 11:25 am.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 11:37 am   #18
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_1993 View Post
Well I really don’t know what to do here then. If the voltage isn’t going to be right for the neon bulb I’ve bought I assume its completely pointless installing it?
It's a spark gap, it really will not be bothered by a few tens of Volts out of spec! Just fit something similar and stop worrying!
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 11:52 am   #19
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

If you are very fussy you could test the good example you still have.
It can be done with a DMM in parallel with a Megger for running voltage.
Striking voltage can be done with a Variac and rectifier with a resistor and again a DMM.
Just go through the examples you have bought and any from old appliances laying about in heaps of junk for a match.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 9:33 am   #20
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Default Re: What does this component do on my vintage Sony Trinitron?

Hi Ryan,

I have just stripped a couple of tatty Sony KV1320UB's for spares for my working example, I can post you one of the tube base PCB's if you like?

Cheers
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