Gramophone Cabinet Help!!

[marmite2]

Ok, I just inherited a wind-up gramophone cabinet. I've had a guy come around to look at it and he's said the cabinet is HMV from around the '30s but the motor and gramophone player is a mix n' match of all the brands. He couldn't help much so I'm sort of walking along in the dark. It's been moved around a lot and it does play, but it starts skipping because the arm's too stiff and I think I have to pull the guts apart. How do I do that? There is little to no help on the internet because my gramophone is so...patchwork.
Any help would be much appreciated!

[AC/HL]

First things first, can you post some photographs to illustrate the various components.

[marmite2]

Here are some photos

[vinrads]

Sounds like the ball bearings are rusty ,I think this is the type where you unscrew a ring from under the arm ,I did one a while back fitted new ball bearings cleaned out all the old grease, re greased ,work's perfect . Mick.

[Techman]

Just my opinion - I don't think that any of it relates to an HMV. I think it's Swiss made hardware (Thorens or Paillard etc.) bought in by a furniture type warehouse who would have got the cabinet designed and made by local cabinet makers in a sort of general HMV style, so it's all original, but just 'un-branded'.

Some tone arms don't have any proper ball bearings and some don't come apart for lubrication. hopefully, yours isn't one of those and has a proper ball race that can be re-lubricated.

Someone has added that Exhibition soundbox, as it may have been thought to be a better performer than the original. The original one could well be the other one that we can't see properly, laying at the rear of the deck and could well have the brand name of the gramophone shown on it. You can often tell a lot by just looking at the type of winding handle.

It does look a very nice gramophone and is unusual in the light oak finish, and it looks to be original, having not been sanded down and re-finished at any time during its life.

Edit: I've just noticed that the soudbox is an Exhibition copy, being branded 'Exportation', but still likely to not be original to the gramophone.

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by Techman

Just my opinion - I don't think that any of it relates to an HMV.

You're right, nothing on that machine is anything to do with HMV.

[marmite2]

Thanks so much for your quick responses! Branding doesn't bother me too much but interesting to hear your opinions on its origin. I've gently tried to pry it open after taking the six screws but it seem that the handle is stopping it for some reason. Do I need to somehow remove handle? Any advice?

[Techman]

Ah, I can tell that you know very little about gramophones if you didn't realise that the winding handle is normally removable. It's a 'dog' type engagement on a lot of the Swiss made motors and just pulls out, but some are threaded and unscrew anti-clockwise and then pull out.

Be careful not to scratch the woodwork of the cabinet with the mechanism when you lift it out. You don't need to remove the deck to get to the tone arm bearing. The tone arm is held with three screws, removing them may involve disconnecting the lid support so that it can be hinged right back for accessing these screws without causing damage, it just depends on how good the access is and how tight the screws are.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

My experience in refurbishing a portable 'Decca' is that the mechanism is quite straightforward, along with the dismantling. Obvious screws and bolts to take apart (apart from the screw-on handle on the Decca, but that clips into the lid so was clear it came off) and then a clean and lubrication.

Beware of the mainspring as it is very dangerous if disturbed and pings out with great force.

I believe the accepted playing method is to change the needle every side you play in order to make sure the needle is worn to the groove rather than the groove worn by the needle. You can buy needles by the thousand for this purpose, and some people use esoteric materials they re-sharpen themselves. It works because early 78s were made with a high proportion of limestone so were much harder than the steel.

[marmite2]

Again, super thanks for help. I tried to get the handle out by rotating it clockwise but it is either stuck or doesn't remove that way and doesn't pull straight out either. Unless I'm supposed to be using a lot of force but that didn't feel right. I was fiddling around with the screws and when I removed the three in a triangle shape the lid came off but the motor is still stuck inside because of this darn handle. It does look like it should unscrew and with maybe some clamps I could generate enough force to turn it but I don't want to damage anything.

[AC/HL]

I'm sure one of the player gurus will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd expect it to unscrew anticlockwise if it does unscrew.

[Techman]

Yes, I clearly stated ANTI-clockwise in my previous post!

You're going to have to be careful you don't end up busting the spring by forcing the winding handle the wrong way!

I don't think you're reading the instructions given properly, as I've already said that you DON'T need to remove the complete deck to get to the tone arm bearing. However, now the motor is exposed, you could give it a little lubrication with some proper clock oil - buy it off the internet from the usual place. Now I've seen the motor, it looks like it could actually be a Garrard single spring type - a little small for such a big gramophone.

[marmite2]

Sorry sorry, that was a typo. I ment anti clockwise! It isn't turning anti clockwise and I thought getting into the guts would help. I'll keep greasing it and hope it comes unstuck.

[Station X]

Get a pair of pliers and use the semi-circular cut outs in the jaws to grip the sleeve which the winding handle fits into. Then unscrew the winding handle anti-clockwise.

Stop if the sleeve starts rotating in the plier's jaws stop or you'll score the sleeve.

[ms660]

If it's supposed to unscrew, two sets of mole grips should do it.

Lawrence.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by marmite2

that was a typo. I ment anti clockwise!

Thank goodness for that!

I've just had a quick look in my 'collection' and it's actually a two spring motor and not a single spring type, so much better than I originally thought.

In the photos I've just taken you can clearly see that it IS a thread - I couldn't find the winding handle handle. It's a Garrard Junior type motor and it should unscrew - even using a couple of 'mole grips' as a last resort as suggested above.

You still didn't need to take all this apart for the tone arm bearing, but the mechanism will benefit from lubrication now it's out - particularly the governor pad. If you don't know what particular parts to oil, then ask on here.

[marmite2]

Thanks that should do the trick. Your motor looks almost identical to mine, do you have any more general information that could be helpful? Thanks so much for the help!