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Old 8th Jan 2022, 6:54 pm   #1
Chris55000
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Default Storage in loft spaces?

Hi!

Do any Members have their surplus items, whether collections of books, pieces of gear, receivers awaiting restoration, etc., etc., stored in loft spaces, and are there any specific precautions that need to be taken?

I'm thinking about:–

a) What sort of weight will the ceiling joists support – would they safely withstand the weight of several oscilloscopes, typically 10–15 kg each?

b) Attack by pests, mould, etc. – is it safe to store all my surplus books & magazines in loft spaces?

They'd be filed in cheap IKEA "Flyt" cardboard magazine storage boxes!

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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:15 pm   #2
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

I've got loads in the loft!

Avoid putting anything heavy over the middle of a ceiling area, but instead place such items directly over where there's a supporting wall below (so long as the direction of the joists cross that wall), but in the case of a house, make sure that this wall continues all the way down through the house to the ground floor and is not just a stud wall built off a floor.

Avoid putting heavy items above door openings. A former work colleague had loads of old TVs and other stuff in his loft and apparently none of the bedroom doors upstairs would open and close properly because the top of the frames had distorted under years of excessive weight from above.

If your roof slopes face north and south, don't place anything that's likely to warp from heat under the south facing slope and be aware that the north facing slope is always going to be coldest - try to cover things over as much as possible.

You may find that storing stuff in the loft may make it difficult to access wiring and plumbing for future maintenance and repair, so keep this in mind when stashing your stuff.

Sharp temperature changes can be an issue, but there's not a lot that can be done about that. If it's a felt lined roof then it's probably still better than the average garden shed, as there's always a slight amount of heat filtering up from the house below.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:16 pm   #3
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

What will the joists support? Depends on a lot! In times-past my parents' house had a 250-gallon water-tank supported by the loft-joists.

1 gallon of water weighs 10 Pounds. It was an old house and I was happy to see the ton-or-so of water-tank removed during a central-heating upgrade.

Recent-build houses designed to have mains-pressure water and 'expansion-vessels' in their combi-boilers so don't have tanks in the loft, so the rafters etc no longer need to be stressed to handle tons of weight.

A few tens of Kg ofd weight stashed in an attic would not worry me.

My big concern would be the temperature/humidity cycling; lofts these days are expected to be well-insulated from the rest of the house so they tend to get cold in winter and hot in summer; in times-past a friend installed his hard-drive-video-recorder in his loft and it failed after a year or so; the replacement failed on a similar timescale. I loaned him a remote-sensing max/min thermometer he could read from his phone, which revealed a summer attic-space-temperature of 67 Centigrade - no wonder he was having hard-drive failures!

I only store a few Kg of military-spec environmentally-sealed radios [complete with desiccators] in my attic. There are no water-tanks or anything else up ther; heaviest thing is a rather-valuable 5-speed Jack Knight gearbox for an Imp!
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:18 pm   #4
Lloyd 1985
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

It all depends on the build quality of the house, newer buildings will probably have thinner joists, but more of them. In our old house I stashed loads of stuff in the loft, quite a few portable tellies, old stereo’s, boxes of random stuff, not to mention there was parts of a large flat packed kitchen dresser up there, and old boxes of toys from mine and my brother’s childhood! That was a 1970’s built terraced house, we boarded out the loft space with chipboard loft flooring boards, which made it safer to store stuff and walk about up there. We did have trouble with mice getting up there and chewing anything they fancied, they nibbled the corner of an old Tandberg reel to reel case! I’d probably use plastic storage boxes over cardboard, easier to clean, don’t absorb moisture, and don’t slowly collapse under weight, unless you store something stupidly heavy in them! Temperature levels can be quite harsh, damn cold in the winter, to crazy hot in the summer, which may not do things much good, plus the felt under the tiles tends to shed sand over everything too, oh and fibreglass insulation is the work of the devil…

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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:25 pm   #5
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

My loft is virtually all floored with old lightweight flush style internal house doors with the hardware removed. You could at one time scrounge these from the neighbours when they upgraded their (60s) houses to the 'retro' type 'panelled' style of doors.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:40 pm   #6
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Dead load + Live load + any load transmitted from the roof.

Lawrence.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:47 pm   #7
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Previous thread involving some numbers: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=168693

Is it warm roof or cold roof construction? In layman's terms - is there insulation between the rafters or in the floor (ceiling of upstairs rooms)?
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 7:51 pm   #8
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

It's really just common sense - put any heavy stuff above or alongside supporting walls, spread everything around, and don't try to store anything up there that one fit person can't get up a loft ladder or through a standard access hatch.

A standard loft isn't a great place to store books and paperwork because the humidity levels can get quite high in the winter. This can also cause rusting on metalwork.

It goes without saying that you should investigate any ceiling movement immediately, and err on the side of caution if in any doubt.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 8:28 pm   #9
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

If you've got gable end walls in your loft, you could do as I've done and fit shelves to these walls - I've done this to just one wall. You can then put on them as much weight as the strength of the shelves will allow, but still try to place the heavier items over where the actual brackets are to prevent the cheap shelving boards (in my case scrounged from a skip) from bending too much over time.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 8:51 pm   #10
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

I recommend plastic boxes rather than cardboard as well. Buy the same size so that they will stack but ensure that they are actually designed to stack, many are not and the weight of those above distorts the lids until they crack. The “really useful” ones are good and available in many shops. However extensive exposure to sunlight will make the plastic brittle.

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Old 8th Jan 2022, 9:15 pm   #11
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Supermarket banana boxes are quite strong and stack well, but they do tend to sag in damp conditions, particularly if loaded heavily.

Supermarkets do sometimes get produce in plastic containers, though this is becoming less common with the pressure to reduce plastic packaging. It can be worthwhile having a friendly word with the checkout supervisor when they're getting quiet at the end of the day.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 9:16 pm   #12
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelman View Post
However extensive exposure to sunlight will make the plastic brittle.
If he's got that many roof tiles missing for that to be an issue, then I'd seriously advise him not putting anything of value in his loft
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 9:21 pm   #13
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

The first thing I would do would be to check things out with your house insurer, they're tightening up their game, ie: If I happened to put in a claim for damage to a felt/bitumen coated roof that was part of the property then I would have to supply them with a certificate of inspection dated prior to the claim by someone who was qualified to do so, what's more the inspection has to be done every three years max. no certificate = no claim.

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Old 8th Jan 2022, 9:26 pm   #14
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd 1985 View Post
I’d probably use plastic storage boxes over cardboard, easier to clean, don’t absorb moisture, and don’t slowly collapse under weight, unless you store something stupidly heavy in them!
I agree, but... I've got both and although cardboard boxes can do exactly as you've said, in a dry and felted loft I can't say that I've had a terrible problem with them. Some have, but it just depends what's in them, if it's books and magazines and the boxes are near enough full, then the contents supports the weight of the one on top and they can be happily stacked if need be. The boxes can 'breathe' and sometimes this is beneficial - so long as you haven't got rodents up there!
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 9:40 pm   #15
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
any load transmitted from the roof.
That's true, you've got to look out for this and avoid adding to it too much.

If you've got bracing rafters (maybe not exactly the correct word) going across the loft at chest height or above, as I have in places in my loft, these hollow flush type house doors that I've mentioned before are just the right length to span them as shelves. They're strong enough not to bend under load while still being very light in weight, however, still be aware of the extra load that you may be putting on the actual roof by doing this - you don't want to go outside and look up at your roof and wonder why it seems to be bowing in the middle!

How to destroy your house in several easy moves, so be careful, and as has already been said, use common sense
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 9:53 pm   #16
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

It's certainly foolish to store large quantities of heavy items in an unmodified loft. There's a good reason why a proper loft conversion involves lots of building work, rather than just boarding over the joists.
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Old 8th Jan 2022, 11:32 pm   #17
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Good loft ventilation is a key requirement. We moved into our present house when it was brand new in 1979. It had what was then the latest thick fibreglass loft insulation standard but very little ventilation up there. That resulted in condensation and severe dampness, ruining several items such as sets of Kodachrome slides. That required a few urgent Heath Robinson ventilation improvements. However, we found that mice can climb walls, get through remarkably small ventilation holes and make a meal of all manner of stored items

Having in recent years had our guttering replaced, we now have modern properly ventilated UPVC soffits with rodent-proof grilles, so the loft makes a decent storage area, though of course suffering the temperature extremes already mentioned.

Loft insulation is another tricky issue. Having had one or two house extensions over the years, our loft insulation is an odd patchwork of different thicknesses of fibreglass, each conforming with the building regulations of its time. I’ve boarded over the centre area to provide safe convenient access throughout the loft, but that itself prevents the insulation in that area being any thicker than the depth of the joists.

Overall, I find I finally have a decent compromise providing decent dry storage conditions. However, were we to sell the house, the energy efficiency consultant would struggle to rate the patchwork of insulation. I suspect that most of our thermal insulation is provided by the numerous boxes of ‘stuff’ up there, including many books, magazines, amplifiers, disused
video recorders, toy trains, etc. We’ve avoided sagging ceilings so far, the partition walls being good solid blockwork, and I’m reassured that the weight of the stuff up there is relatively small compared with the very heavy concrete roof tiles.

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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:29 am   #18
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

The loft is a hostile environment unless you have sealed cavities, timber clad under roof, and ideally some form of under roof insulation as well. Apart from the extremes of temperatures, there will be dust as well. My roof used to be the underside of bare slates, and in certain weather conditions water condensed under the slates and dripped onto whatever was stored underneath. The temperature swing over a year was easily 50C.

And then, ultimately, some other poor sap has to be responsible for clearing out all those treasured possessions, and treating with the deference that prevented them from being disposed of originally.

I still have stuff in my 3rd loft, that was in my 1st loft, 35 years ago.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 1:35 am   #19
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

At one time, a previous owner of our bungalow had done some work in the loft, but seems to have neglected to get planning permission! The joists had been strengthened but the flooring removed and stacked. I cleared out the afore mentioned patchwork of old dusty layers of obsolete thin insulation (complete with 5 dessicated rat skeletons!), redistributed the existing new insulation and replaced the flooring. Access is via a new substantial wooden loft ladder. My point is that the existing ventilation via the eaves makes storage conditions acceptable humidity wise. Cold in winter and hot in summer of course, but dry enough for storage. I have my computer up there, and a light duty occasional workbench. It can never be classed as inhabitable without substantial extra work, and planning and buildings permissions, but useful nonetheless. One other point, when unoccupied all power is isolated.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 9:42 am   #20
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Due to the construction of our house I have two independent lofts with a gable wall between them. Both lofts with full insulation on the floors and nothing apart from the felt on the tiles. Both floors partially boarded over. The roof faces east and west. I have had no problems over many years with all sorts of stuff stored in them. We do though need a couple of mouse traps which get triggered a few times each year. And for a few years we had bats, as evidenced by their droppings, but they have moved on. Certainly there are wide temperature variations over the year but nothing has suffered from it apart from long runs of model railway track which get a bit crooked in the summer. And as earlier mentioned, shelving on the gable wall in both lofts.

Gordon
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