Dansette "Monarch" - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

DonaldStott · 2nd Mar 2018, 3:25 pm

A friend has asked me to look at this record player with a view to getting it into working order (?) so I've done some basic research on the Forum - we are at the identification and initial observations stage before I go taking anything apart.

See the pictures attached below.

Obviously we have a Danstte "Monarch" with what looks to me like a BSR UA16 record changer? It's very grubby and in need of a good clean all over! Did an initial patch with foam cleanser and this restored some of the colour but what's best to use on this material?

Looking at the tonearm and cartridge it looks like we have a TC8M cartridge although two of the wires are disconnected? The sticker on the deck shows "FITTED WITH GENUINE DIAMOND L.P. STYLUS" but I've noted elsewhere on the Forum comments such as "...but it is a mono only, medium output, cartridge and is definitely NOT suitable for playing stereo records as it will permanently damage them." - noting the difference of course between a stylus and a cartridge.

The other picture of the tonearm shows that the spring appears to be disconnected at one end - where should that be attached to?

Probably enough questions for now - any help would be welcomed.

ms660 · 2nd Mar 2018, 3:38 pm

The two spare wires near the pickup cartridge are for when a stereo output cartridge is fitted, the cartridge that's fitted is not stereo compatible so far as I am aware.

The loop on the end of the spring isn't supposed to connect to anything, spring tension is set by engaging the body of the spring over the thin piece of metal that is perpendicular to it as is shown in the photo.

Lawrence.

DonaldStott · 2nd Mar 2018, 3:46 pm

Thanks Lawrence - very helpful.

What would be a suitable cartridge replacement bearing in mind that my friend wants to play stereo LPs on this record player - I know that actual stereo playback isn't possible with this model as the two speakers are simply connected in parallel.

Interesting technique to adjust the spring tension ... !

ms660 · 2nd Mar 2018, 3:52 pm

Someone else is best to advise on a suitable cartridge if there's a need to replace it, there should be a stereo out socket on the rear of the cabinet, design to feed a small aux. amplifier with built in loudspeaker so that the player amplifies one channel and the aux. unit amplifies the other channel.

The output sockets etc are shown on the schematic.

Lawrence.

stumted2 · 2nd Mar 2018, 3:56 pm

Increasing/decreasing the tension of the spring, by pulling it off thin metal clip, and replacing it at whatever number coils of the spring forward or back, to achieve the desired tracking force/weight, and is the means of adjusting the tracking force/weight.

Hope this helps,

Ted.

stumted2 · 2nd Mar 2018, 4:00 pm

Oops, Lawrence has already covered this, sorry Lawrence.

Cheers,

Ted.

DonaldStott · 2nd Mar 2018, 4:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms660

The output sockets etc are shown on the schematic.

Thanks Lawrence - I've downloaded the schematic prior to doing anything with this record player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumted2

Increasing/decreasing the tension of the spring, by pulling it off thin metal clip, and replacing it at whatever number coils of the spring forward or back, to achieve the desired tracking force/weight, and is the means of adjusting the tracking force/weight.

Thanks Ted - seems a bit hit and miss but no doubt effective. What would the typical tracking weight be for the TC8M cartridge?

Herald1360 · 2nd Mar 2018, 5:36 pm

A potential cartridge would be the red'n'black Chinese Cheapy together with whatever mechanical ingenuity is required to mount it.

Anything else suitable will require loadsamoney, loadsaluck or both to source.

Edward Huggins · 2nd Mar 2018, 6:13 pm

The original TC8M mono only cartridge tracked at 6/8 grams. If you use a "Red Generic Chinese" cartridge (by far the cheapest option) this will track at about 4 grams. If you use one of these, the stereo channels should be bridged to give a mono only output i.e. RH+ and LH+/RH- and LH-. Also you will not have a 78rpm option. The most elegant but most expensive option is a BSR X5M stereo compatible mono cartridge connected to those same red and black connectors. The autochanger is actually a BSR UA15.

DonaldStott · 3rd Mar 2018, 11:47 am

Thanks Chris and Edward for the valuable information - I will have to defer to my friend to ascertain how much they want to spend on a new cartridge, but good to know there are options.

Quick question for Edward, what differentiates a BSR UA15 from a BSR UA16?

In my initial Post I asked what's best to clean the exterior of this record player - sample picture attached where I just cleaned with foam cleanser - any advice?

Meantime I'm getting ahead of myself and need to work through the excellent Sticky Threads in this Forum by Darren-UK and others - lots to check out so that should keep me busy for a while.

Edward Huggins · 3rd Mar 2018, 12:05 pm

The UA16 was made in limited quantities by BSR and mainly for BUSH.
It was only made in a Blue Metallic or Black finish. It had a taller stacking spindle and higher set tone arm and could stack 2 more LPs than the UA15.
The fabric can be cleaned with household detergent and a medium toothbrush.
For more stubborn marks you can use Cif (formerly Jif) but go easy.
If you go for a Chinese Cheapie, try to get one with a proper mounting bracket (1/2" fixing) otherwise it's a bit of a faff to fit for secure and accurate tracking.

peter_sol · 3rd Mar 2018, 12:18 pm

UA16 is taller and can stack more records UA15 is not as tall and was made to compete with the Garrard Autoslim range
There are also UA15 SS (super slim) models

Foam cleaner kitchen surface cleaner bathroom cleaner or whatever you have in the cupboard is fine (and a nail brush for obstinate cases)

leslie5555 · 3rd Mar 2018, 2:25 pm

I serviced one of these about a year ago and I found it to be one of the better Dansettes with a large elliptical speaker, it had a date stamped inside the cabinet which was May 1966, I fitted it with a BSR X5M cartridge and it sounded very good indeed. Well worth the effort of bringing it back to life.

The picture is of a UA16 which is fitted to my Bush SRP 31D

Nuvistor · 3rd Mar 2018, 3:19 pm

Always liked the look of the UA16 with the metallic blue and black, plus they were fitted to the SRP31D that helped. Never owned one but fixed a few.

Ekcoman · 3rd Mar 2018, 3:51 pm

Someone might correct me but a Ronette 105 cartridge might be a possible option. There are a couple available on a certain well known auction site. Don't go for the repro "brand new" version.

Edward Huggins · 3rd Mar 2018, 6:34 pm

An overlooked feature of this Dansette "Monarch" model was that although it had the same modest ECL82 amplifier of the earlier Dansette "Conquest", it did use two 8" x 5" speakers. I don't know of any other portable record player that boasted 2 speakers of this size.

leslie5555 · 3rd Mar 2018, 8:37 pm

Edward the one I serviced only had one speaker? Did they change it ?

Edward Huggins · 3rd Mar 2018, 10:06 pm

You may be thinking of the one year later, Dansette "Imperial" which looked almost identical, had one 9" x 6" speaker and the twin ECL86 U/L PP amplifier from the Dansette "Hi Fi".

leslie5555 · 4th Mar 2018, 12:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by leslie5555

Edward the one I serviced only had one speaker? Did they change it ?

Oopps just found some photos of the one I serviced and it did indeed have two speakers ,
Apologies.
Les

tracypaper · 4th Mar 2018, 4:02 pm

Just to be a bit clearer about the cartridge, if the owner wants to play stereo records then ditch the TC8M fitted and sell it, even if it works or not, some collectors want originality.
If you do buy one of the Chinese cheapos then make sure it is a STEREO one and bridge the tags as Edward mentions, a stereo TC8S copy will have Three tags instead of the usual four, Mono only Two tags.
BSR X5M Carts sometimes turn up on Ebay cheap, I just bought Two and BSR X5H for £15.00 each.
Gaz.

2nd Mar 2018, 3:25 pm	#1
DonaldStott Octode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Glasgow, UK. Posts: 1,842	Dansette "Monarch" A friend has asked me to look at this record player with a view to getting it into working order (?) so I've done some basic research on the Forum - we are at the identification and initial observations stage before I go taking anything apart. See the pictures attached below. Obviously we have a Danstte "Monarch" with what looks to me like a BSR UA16 record changer? It's very grubby and in need of a good clean all over! Did an initial patch with foam cleanser and this restored some of the colour but what's best to use on this material? Looking at the tonearm and cartridge it looks like we have a TC8M cartridge although two of the wires are disconnected? The sticker on the deck shows "FITTED WITH GENUINE DIAMOND L.P. STYLUS" but I've noted elsewhere on the Forum comments such as "...but it is a mono only, medium output, cartridge and is definitely NOT suitable for playing stereo records as it will permanently damage them." - noting the difference of course between a stylus and a cartridge. The other picture of the tonearm shows that the spring appears to be disconnected at one end - where should that be attached to? Probably enough questions for now - any help would be welcomed. Attached Thumbnails __________________ BVWS Member Last edited by DonaldStott; 2nd Mar 2018 at 3:30 pm. Reason: Typo

2nd Mar 2018, 3:38 pm	#2
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Dansette "Monarch" The two spare wires near the pickup cartridge are for when a stereo output cartridge is fitted, the cartridge that's fitted is not stereo compatible so far as I am aware. The loop on the end of the spring isn't supposed to connect to anything, spring tension is set by engaging the body of the spring over the thin piece of metal that is perpendicular to it as is shown in the photo. Lawrence.

2nd Mar 2018, 3:46 pm	#3
DonaldStott Octode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Glasgow, UK. Posts: 1,842	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Thanks Lawrence - very helpful. What would be a suitable cartridge replacement bearing in mind that my friend wants to play stereo LPs on this record player - I know that actual stereo playback isn't possible with this model as the two speakers are simply connected in parallel. Interesting technique to adjust the spring tension ... ! __________________ BVWS Member

2nd Mar 2018, 3:52 pm	#4
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Someone else is best to advise on a suitable cartridge if there's a need to replace it, there should be a stereo out socket on the rear of the cabinet, design to feed a small aux. amplifier with built in loudspeaker so that the player amplifies one channel and the aux. unit amplifies the other channel. The output sockets etc are shown on the schematic. Lawrence. Last edited by ms660; 2nd Mar 2018 at 4:03 pm. Reason: clarity

2nd Mar 2018, 3:56 pm	#5
stumted2 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 292	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Increasing/decreasing the tension of the spring, by pulling it off thin metal clip, and replacing it at whatever number coils of the spring forward or back, to achieve the desired tracking force/weight, and is the means of adjusting the tracking force/weight. Hope this helps, Ted.

2nd Mar 2018, 4:00 pm	#6
stumted2 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 292	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Oops, Lawrence has already covered this, sorry Lawrence. Cheers, Ted.

2nd Mar 2018, 5:36 pm	#8
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Dansette "Monarch" A potential cartridge would be the red'n'black Chinese Cheapy together with whatever mechanical ingenuity is required to mount it. Anything else suitable will require loadsamoney, loadsaluck or both to source. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

2nd Mar 2018, 6:13 pm	#9
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Dansette "Monarch" The original TC8M mono only cartridge tracked at 6/8 grams. If you use a "Red Generic Chinese" cartridge (by far the cheapest option) this will track at about 4 grams. If you use one of these, the stereo channels should be bridged to give a mono only output i.e. RH+ and LH+/RH- and LH-. Also you will not have a 78rpm option. The most elegant but most expensive option is a BSR X5M stereo compatible mono cartridge connected to those same red and black connectors. The autochanger is actually a BSR UA15. __________________ Edward.

3rd Mar 2018, 11:47 am	#10
DonaldStott Octode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Glasgow, UK. Posts: 1,842	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Thanks Chris and Edward for the valuable information - I will have to defer to my friend to ascertain how much they want to spend on a new cartridge, but good to know there are options. Quick question for Edward, what differentiates a BSR UA15 from a BSR UA16? In my initial Post I asked what's best to clean the exterior of this record player - sample picture attached where I just cleaned with foam cleanser - any advice? Meantime I'm getting ahead of myself and need to work through the excellent Sticky Threads in this Forum by Darren-UK and others - lots to check out so that should keep me busy for a while. Attached Thumbnails __________________ BVWS Member

3rd Mar 2018, 12:05 pm	#11
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Dansette "Monarch" The UA16 was made in limited quantities by BSR and mainly for BUSH. It was only made in a Blue Metallic or Black finish. It had a taller stacking spindle and higher set tone arm and could stack 2 more LPs than the UA15. The fabric can be cleaned with household detergent and a medium toothbrush. For more stubborn marks you can use Cif (formerly Jif) but go easy. If you go for a Chinese Cheapie, try to get one with a proper mounting bracket (1/2" fixing) otherwise it's a bit of a faff to fit for secure and accurate tracking. __________________ Edward.

3rd Mar 2018, 12:18 pm	#12
peter_sol Octode Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Welwyn Garden City, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,906	Re: Dansette "Monarch" UA16 is taller and can stack more records UA15 is not as tall and was made to compete with the Garrard Autoslim range There are also UA15 SS (super slim) models Foam cleaner kitchen surface cleaner bathroom cleaner or whatever you have in the cupboard is fine (and a nail brush for obstinate cases)

3rd Mar 2018, 2:25 pm	#13
leslie5555 Heptode Join Date: May 2015 Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Posts: 692	Re: Dansette "Monarch" I serviced one of these about a year ago and I found it to be one of the better Dansettes with a large elliptical speaker, it had a date stamped inside the cabinet which was May 1966, I fitted it with a BSR X5M cartridge and it sounded very good indeed. Well worth the effort of bringing it back to life. The picture is of a UA16 which is fitted to my Bush SRP 31D Attached Thumbnails

3rd Mar 2018, 3:19 pm	#14
Nuvistor Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 9,433	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Always liked the look of the UA16 with the metallic blue and black, plus they were fitted to the SRP31D that helped. Never owned one but fixed a few. __________________ Frank

3rd Mar 2018, 3:51 pm	#15
Ekcoman Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southend, Essex, UK Posts: 663	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Someone might correct me but a Ronette 105 cartridge might be a possible option. There are a couple available on a certain well known auction site. Don't go for the repro "brand new" version. __________________ "I really am seriously downsizing "

3rd Mar 2018, 6:34 pm	#16
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Dansette "Monarch" An overlooked feature of this Dansette "Monarch" model was that although it had the same modest ECL82 amplifier of the earlier Dansette "Conquest", it did use two 8" x 5" speakers. I don't know of any other portable record player that boasted 2 speakers of this size. __________________ Edward.

3rd Mar 2018, 8:37 pm	#17
leslie5555 Heptode Join Date: May 2015 Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Posts: 692	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Edward the one I serviced only had one speaker? Did they change it ?

3rd Mar 2018, 10:06 pm	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Dansette "Monarch" You may be thinking of the one year later, Dansette "Imperial" which looked almost identical, had one 9" x 6" speaker and the twin ECL86 U/L PP amplifier from the Dansette "Hi Fi". __________________ Edward.

4th Mar 2018, 4:02 pm	#20
tracypaper Octode Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beeston, Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,234	Re: Dansette "Monarch" Just to be a bit clearer about the cartridge, if the owner wants to play stereo records then ditch the TC8M fitted and sell it, even if it works or not, some collectors want originality. If you do buy one of the Chinese cheapos then make sure it is a STEREO one and bridge the tags as Edward mentions, a stereo TC8S copy will have Three tags instead of the usual four, Mono only Two tags. BSR X5M Carts sometimes turn up on Ebay cheap, I just bought Two and BSR X5H for £15.00 each. Gaz.