UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 6th Mar 2018, 3:51 pm   #1
Voxophone
Hexode
 
Voxophone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 324
Default Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Hi All,

A while ago I picked up a Gents Pul-Syn-Etic slave clock with a 4 Ohm coil and built a simple 30 second timing circuit to run it.

The timing circuit works well and keeps good time. However, I have an intermittent problem with one of the terminals on the clock itself which means it periodically stops working. The coil measures fine, but one of the connections between the external screw terminal and the soldered end of the coil intermittently develops a high resistance (5 Ohms to 1 few hundred Ohms) which is enough to restrict the current flow and prevent the clock working.

The connection between the solder terminal and the screw appears to be inside the Bakelite moulding, therefore I canít see whether or not it is damaged. Iím also unable to remove the front of the clock to remove the mechanism completely as the front face appears to be glued on!

Iíll post pictures soon to show what I mean. If anyone has any experience with these clocks and can shed any light on the problem that would be very useful. Tips on dismantling would also be much appreciated.

Cheers

Liam
Voxophone is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2018, 4:25 pm   #2
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Hi Liam,

The painted/printed dial is often tacked on with blobs of black adhesive, though it usually gives way fairly easily, to reveal the fixing screws for the movement. Occasionally though, there are tiny countersunk screws around the edge.

Also note that you'd have to remove the hands, and that the minute hand is often attached by a collet with TWO grubscrews!

N.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2018, 4:31 pm   #3
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,838
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

They where built to be very cheap, your best bet is to bypass the hidden bit with a bit of wire as you have access to the coil. My Magneta master clock runs the four house dials (kitchen, hall, upstairs landing and workshop), welcome to the master clock club.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2018, 5:07 pm   #4
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
They were built to be very cheap...
...but with a quick service, they will work as well as they day they were made, often well over half a century ago.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2018, 5:51 pm   #5
M0FYA Andy
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,614
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

I'm not convinced they were built to be very cheap, if we are talking about genuine Gent's products. Certainly not 'value engineered' in the way a modern product would be. A picture would help.
Andy
M0FYA Andy is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2018, 7:49 pm   #6
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,838
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Quote:
Certainly not 'value engineered' in the way a modern product would be
Not that far, but still as cheap as could be.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 12:10 pm   #7
Voxophone
Hexode
 
Voxophone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 324
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Thanks for your replies.

I've attached a couple of photos. The red arrow in the view of the mechanism shows the connection which is high resistance.

Bypassing it with a wire jumper as suggested would be a good solution, however it might make it difficult to fit the back cover.

I might try a jumper with the back off for a while to see if it solves the problem, then go from there.

Cheers

Liam
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Gents 1.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	172.6 KB
ID:	158793   Click image for larger version

Name:	Gents 2.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	155.0 KB
ID:	158794  
Voxophone is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 1:14 pm   #8
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Nothing "cheap" about that IMHO!

I would cheat by adding a discreet wire link.

BTW, there's all the info you need to service and adjust up one of these on Bob Freshwater's telephone site.

Nick.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 1:31 pm   #9
M0FYA Andy
Octode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,614
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
Nothing "cheap" about that IMHO!


Nick.
My point exactly! Gent's products were very well made.

Andy
M0FYA Andy is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 1:36 pm   #10
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Cheaper than a spring-driven, fusee wall clock in each room by far, admittedly, but that's the raison d'etre of master/slave clock installations.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 4:18 pm   #11
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,838
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Quote:
however it might make it difficult to fit the back cover.
I can't see why, a little bit of wire soldered to the tag and passed under the screw.

Quote:
Cheaper than a spring-driven
Yes, only 1/2 a dozen quite clunky bits of metal, cheap to make, easy to maintain. My dials must be over 50 years old, I just put them on the wall, still going. A lot to be said for cheap and simple.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 4:34 pm   #12
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Most of the bits for each clock were stamped out of a small rectanglular sheet of metal. If you've got one in pieces and a few spare seconds, you can do a little jigsaw! For example, the front plate has a round cutout in it, into which the main toothed wheel fits exactly.

I'd describe it as elegantly simple. "Cheap" in the sense of not costing a great deal, but certainly not nasty.

N.

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 7th Mar 2018 at 4:39 pm.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 8:55 pm   #13
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Here's all the info I have on my PC concerning these clocks, gleaned from various web sources including here: http://waitingtrain.blogspot.co.uk/2...s-booklet.html

Their origin should be easy to establish; apologies to the site owners for not acknowledging them here and thank you for posting these incredibly useful documents.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Pulsynetic instructions.zip (1.91 MB, 26 views)

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 7th Mar 2018 at 9:08 pm.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2018, 8:58 pm   #14
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 13,994
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

And my Gents movement (an S-type, derived from the earlier C9), stripped down after decades if neglect for a long overdue service. It now lives in a 1930s mahogany longcase clock case in our living room, powered from one of Mark Lines' modules.

You can see clearly how lots of the smaller bits have been made from stock stamped out of the front plate, minimising the amount of metal used without compromising its build quality in any way.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Parts.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	62.7 KB
ID:	158828  

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 7th Mar 2018 at 9:05 pm.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2018, 10:34 am   #15
mark_in_manc
Octode
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,011
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

That's proper engineering, solving the minimal waste / maximal quality optimisation!

On the subject of master-slave clocks - my ITR (IBM) slaves are out of service at the moment as switch bounce seems to have them a bit inclined to run fast at random. I assume it's switch bounce, though the main switch is a mercury-in-glass-bulb tilt thing with lots of mechanical inertia, which it is hard to imagine bouncing anywhere! Oddly, the two slaves seem affected by this to a different degree. I wonder if there should be a low-pass filter somewhere (caps across the signal?) to take some of this out?
mark_in_manc is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2018, 3:11 pm   #16
Brigham
Heptode
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Co. Durham, UK.
Posts: 757
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

I thought I'd finally joined the 'master clock club' just a few weeks ago, when someone remembered that I 'like old stuff', and offered me 'a long wall-clock that they took out when they re-wired the office block', that her uncle had taken home with him as scrap.
I offered her £50, just from the description, and her uncle duly dropped it off for me.

Anybody want a Blick time recorder?
Brigham is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2018, 3:49 pm   #17
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,838
Default Re: Gents Pul-Syn-Etic Slave Clock Problem - High Resistance Terminal

Quote:
That's proper engineering
Indeed.
Quote:
'd describe it as elegantly simple. "Cheap" in the sense of not costing a great deal, but certainly not nasty.
Not nasty at all, takeapartable and fixable, just not your high end clock finish, who cares if it works?

Nickthedentist, wonderful picture, whack-stamp and all the bits are there, brilliant.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 6:43 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018, Paul Stenning.