Bush wall clock Radio - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

60 oldjohn · 12th Sep 2011, 10:38 am

I have a Bush 538A Wall clock radio from c1970. The clock movement is faulty and I hope to fit a Quartz movement. Has any one found an exact replacement for the original? The second hand is approx 18mm from the front of the movement. The movment is secured by an externaly threaded 10mm bush, the hole in clock face is countersunk. I have a few clock movements here but nothing like what I need. Anyone know what I need? Thank you for looking, John.

grundigsatelite · 12th Sep 2011, 12:29 pm

Go on eBay, they have lots of brand new battery movements which have the same thread your talking about. Also old battery Kienzle movements are the same thread type. If it's slack when you tighten up, either cut the thread smaller or build up with rubber washers. I believe the movements come with one rubber washer? Also, the seconds hand you will have to paint red like the original.

PS: fab clock radios, either in orange or white.

Mike Phelan · 12th Sep 2011, 5:14 pm

Shame to scrap the movement, John. What's wrong with it?

60 oldjohn · 12th Sep 2011, 7:10 pm

When I first received the clock it was losing 5 mins a day after cleaning battery terminals 2 new batterys and a week of adjusting I thought it was about right then it was no better. I had never gave repaire a thought with quartz movments being so cheap, I had not even noticed the pcb in the back of the movement. I will have a go at it if there are caps and resistors in there

, I would like to keep it a original as possible. John.

60 oldjohn · 12th Sep 2011, 9:04 pm

The clock has a black case with clear rear cover and a circit board. The pcb has two transistors a coil, 330k resistor and a 3.3uf 6.3v cap. I have just changed cap for 3.3uf 25v slightly larger but plenty of room, The original cap had high ESR. Inside was clean no sign of anything sticky. There is a double disk with a small magnet on each that "rocks" with a fixed coil between them. I will report back on the acuacy of the clock hopefully in about a week. John.

60 oldjohn · 12th Sep 2011, 11:07 pm

No magnetic contacts /conections as such. I think the coil repels the pair of magnets as they get near. I'm not sure if this is what you meant. John.

Jason Pero · 13th Sep 2011, 2:19 am

This funny flat round coil is 2 windings, one common point and two wire, each go to a transistor's output, and trigger winding goes to the base of transistor. Every time balance passes through the trigger coil, this sends out a pulse to the base of transistor, triggering a power pulse through a impulse winding, kicking the balance around. Works on both directions.

Movement needs taken apart to clean and lubricated with light clock oil. Send out the movement to a clock/watch hobbyist if one can find one to do the repair.

Otherwise quartz movement can be had with different mounting designs.

Cheers.

Mike Phelan · 13th Sep 2011, 9:23 am

John
It's as Jason says. They are used in car clocks as well.
PM me if you want me to have a look at it as scrapping it for q***tz junk is sacrilege!
It probably just wants a strip, clean and oil.

paulsherwin · 13th Sep 2011, 10:24 am

If you decide to take the quartz route regardless, your local Poundland or equivalent is likely to stock several types for you to choose from.

60 oldjohn · 13th Sep 2011, 12:31 pm

Hi Mike, Thank you for your kind offer, I might take you up on it. I am still testing it, first hour spot on, second hour seems to have lost 4 minutes. Hands are tight on shafts and clear each other. I have cleaned the battery contacts and tined them. Cogs Slipping? I will give it a few more hours before investigating. John.

Mike Phelan · 13th Sep 2011, 5:03 pm

Hi John

If one or both hands were moving separately then they would be out of sync with each other, so that's not the problem.

There should be no lubricant at all on any of the wheel teeth (clocks have wheels, cogs are for old mangles and combine harvesters

).

However, yours is losing erratically, not at a constant rate so one guess is that there's something wrong with the parts between the balance (thing with magnet) and the wheel train, or one of the wheels has become loose on its arbor.

Any chance of a close-up of the movement? Also, does it have plastic wheels? Some of these are notorious for teeth breaking when the phantom bodger oils them or worse, sprays WD40 into it!

grundigsatelite · 13th Sep 2011, 6:09 pm

I think the problem could be the coil which keeps a constant oscillation. If that's not working properly it will lose time it can be heard kicking in at regular intervals .

grundigsatelite · 13th Sep 2011, 6:45 pm

another common fault in time losing dont overlook the large hour hand if its been put back on too tight it could lose time there should be a brass nut which keeps the hour hand secure then the second sweep hand pushes in centre spindle........if nut is too tight on spindle it binds but clock will work and lose time. the spindle thread is very fine thread There is one on ebay at the moment with clock movement on view for those who wish to see the movement . ebay number 260851477970

60 oldjohn · 13th Sep 2011, 9:48 pm

Thanks for the Ebay link. Thats the one, but my set is orange. Just had a look and it has now lost 30 minutes in 12hours. I will dismantel clock and have a look at the nut tomorow. John.

grundigsatelite · 13th Sep 2011, 10:42 pm

Hi John, you need to upload a pic of the movement so that forum members can get a good detailed look at it. Two versions of movement for the Bush one with push on hands; no nut and the other is a nut type to hold the hands. I believe the clocks are Italian made and badged Rank badged? The orange version is very desirable and the white version tends to go brown-stained with time.

60 oldjohn · 13th Sep 2011, 11:30 pm

I have trouble uploading photos. Short hand pushes on. The underneath of the minute hand it is holowed out to take the rectangular end of shaft top side of same hand is a round hole to take the threads and nut. The second hand pushes in. I will report back with movement maker, I think it was German make. John.

60 oldjohn · 14th Sep 2011, 4:04 pm

I hope I am not speaking too soon but after slackening the nut on minute hand and not pressing the second hand in not so far It seems to be very near correct. Yesterday it losts 55 minutes in 24 hours! As for the maker it only says GERMANY and an USA PAT no. and 5 SEC/DAY near the time adjuster. John.

60 oldjohn · 14th Sep 2011, 9:25 pm

The clock is running slightly slow with an Alkaline battery, I think I may try to adjust it tommorow. I recaped the radio and am running it with 2x 3R12, same as 1289 as I have a stock of these.

grundigsatelite · 14th Sep 2011, 9:49 pm

john did you by any chance touch the last battery you fitted and did it feel hot? or depleted let me know if its drawing the life out the battery quickly do they read good voltage yet 2 days later poor voltage anyway john i think you have nearly got it going properly personally i would regulate it in 48 hours keep us posted

John, did you by any chance touch the last battery you fitted and did it feel hot or depleted? Let me know if it's drawing the life out the battery quickly. Do they read good voltage yet 2 days later poor voltage? Anyway John, I think you have nearly got it going properly. Personally I would regulate it in 48 hours. Keep us posted.

60 oldjohn · 14th Sep 2011, 10:10 pm

I think it OK power wise, not even slightly warm and the same battery as yesterday. I will put a meter on it tomorow. The battery has had a little use to get an average voltage for setting time. John.

12th Sep 2011, 10:38 am	#1
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Bush wall clock Radio I have a Bush 538A Wall clock radio from c1970. The clock movement is faulty and I hope to fit a Quartz movement. Has any one found an exact replacement for the original? The second hand is approx 18mm from the front of the movement. The movment is secured by an externaly threaded 10mm bush, the hole in clock face is countersunk. I have a few clock movements here but nothing like what I need. Anyone know what I need? Thank you for looking, John.

12th Sep 2011, 12:29 pm	#2
grundigsatelite Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 13	Re: Bush wall clock Radio Go on eBay, they have lots of brand new battery movements which have the same thread your talking about. Also old battery Kienzle movements are the same thread type. If it's slack when you tighten up, either cut the thread smaller or build up with rubber washers. I believe the movements come with one rubber washer? Also, the seconds hand you will have to paint red like the original. PS: fab clock radios, either in orange or white. Last edited by Darren-UK; 15th Sep 2011 at 12:07 am. Reason: Genillit.

12th Sep 2011, 5:14 pm	#3
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Bush wall clock Radio Shame to scrap the movement, John. What's wrong with it? __________________ Mike.

12th Sep 2011, 7:10 pm	#4
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio When I first received the clock it was losing 5 mins a day after cleaning battery terminals 2 new batterys and a week of adjusting I thought it was about right then it was no better. I had never gave repaire a thought with quartz movments being so cheap, I had not even noticed the pcb in the back of the movement. I will have a go at it if there are caps and resistors in there, I would like to keep it a original as possible. John.

12th Sep 2011, 9:04 pm	#5
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio The clock has a black case with clear rear cover and a circit board. The pcb has two transistors a coil, 330k resistor and a 3.3uf 6.3v cap. I have just changed cap for 3.3uf 25v slightly larger but plenty of room, The original cap had high ESR. Inside was clean no sign of anything sticky. There is a double disk with a small magnet on each that "rocks" with a fixed coil between them. I will report back on the acuacy of the clock hopefully in about a week. John.

12th Sep 2011, 11:07 pm	#6
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio No magnetic contacts /conections as such. I think the coil repels the pair of magnets as they get near. I'm not sure if this is what you meant. John.

13th Sep 2011, 2:19 am	#7
Jason Pero Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada. Posts: 51	Re: Bush wall clock Radio This funny flat round coil is 2 windings, one common point and two wire, each go to a transistor's output, and trigger winding goes to the base of transistor. Every time balance passes through the trigger coil, this sends out a pulse to the base of transistor, triggering a power pulse through a impulse winding, kicking the balance around. Works on both directions. Movement needs taken apart to clean and lubricated with light clock oil. Send out the movement to a clock/watch hobbyist if one can find one to do the repair. Otherwise quartz movement can be had with different mounting designs. Cheers.

13th Sep 2011, 9:23 am	#8
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Bush wall clock Radio John It's as Jason says. They are used in car clocks as well. PM me if you want me to have a look at it as scrapping it for q***tz junk is sacrilege! It probably just wants a strip, clean and oil. __________________ Mike.

13th Sep 2011, 10:24 am	#9
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,943	Re: Bush wall clock Radio If you decide to take the quartz route regardless, your local Poundland or equivalent is likely to stock several types for you to choose from.

13th Sep 2011, 12:31 pm	#10
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio Hi Mike, Thank you for your kind offer, I might take you up on it. I am still testing it, first hour spot on, second hour seems to have lost 4 minutes. Hands are tight on shafts and clear each other. I have cleaned the battery contacts and tined them. Cogs Slipping? I will give it a few more hours before investigating. John.

13th Sep 2011, 5:03 pm	#11
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Bush wall clock Radio Hi John If one or both hands were moving separately then they would be out of sync with each other, so that's not the problem. There should be no lubricant at all on any of the wheel teeth (clocks have wheels, cogs are for old mangles and combine harvesters ). However, yours is losing erratically, not at a constant rate so one guess is that there's something wrong with the parts between the balance (thing with magnet) and the wheel train, or one of the wheels has become loose on its arbor. Any chance of a close-up of the movement? Also, does it have plastic wheels? Some of these are notorious for teeth breaking when the phantom bodger oils them or worse, sprays WD40 into it! __________________ Mike.

13th Sep 2011, 6:09 pm	#12
grundigsatelite Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 13	Re: Bush wall clock Radio I think the problem could be the coil which keeps a constant oscillation. If that's not working properly it will lose time it can be heard kicking in at regular intervals . Last edited by Mike Phelan; 13th Sep 2011 at 7:29 pm. Reason: Corrected typos.

13th Sep 2011, 6:45 pm	#13
grundigsatelite Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 13	Re: Bush wall clock Radio another common fault in time losing dont overlook the large hour hand if its been put back on too tight it could lose time there should be a brass nut which keeps the hour hand secure then the second sweep hand pushes in centre spindle........if nut is too tight on spindle it binds but clock will work and lose time. the spindle thread is very fine thread There is one on ebay at the moment with clock movement on view for those who wish to see the movement . ebay number 260851477970 Last edited by grundigsatelite; 13th Sep 2011 at 7:11 pm. Reason: forgot to include information

13th Sep 2011, 9:48 pm	#14
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio Thanks for the Ebay link. Thats the one, but my set is orange. Just had a look and it has now lost 30 minutes in 12hours. I will dismantel clock and have a look at the nut tomorow. John.

13th Sep 2011, 10:42 pm	#15
grundigsatelite Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 13	Re: Bush wall clock Radio Hi John, you need to upload a pic of the movement so that forum members can get a good detailed look at it. Two versions of movement for the Bush one with push on hands; no nut and the other is a nut type to hold the hands. I believe the clocks are Italian made and badged Rank badged? The orange version is very desirable and the white version tends to go brown-stained with time.

13th Sep 2011, 11:30 pm	#16
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio I have trouble uploading photos. Short hand pushes on. The underneath of the minute hand it is holowed out to take the rectangular end of shaft top side of same hand is a round hole to take the threads and nut. The second hand pushes in. I will report back with movement maker, I think it was German make. John.

14th Sep 2011, 4:04 pm	#17
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio I hope I am not speaking too soon but after slackening the nut on minute hand and not pressing the second hand in not so far It seems to be very near correct. Yesterday it losts 55 minutes in 24 hours! As for the maker it only says GERMANY and an USA PAT no. and 5 SEC/DAY near the time adjuster. John.

14th Sep 2011, 9:25 pm	#18
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio The clock is running slightly slow with an Alkaline battery, I think I may try to adjust it tommorow. I recaped the radio and am running it with 2x 3R12, same as 1289 as I have a stock of these.

14th Sep 2011, 9:49 pm	#19
grundigsatelite Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 13	Re: Bush wall clock Radio john did you by any chance touch the last battery you fitted and did it feel hot? or depleted let me know if its drawing the life out the battery quickly do they read good voltage yet 2 days later poor voltage anyway john i think you have nearly got it going properly personally i would regulate it in 48 hours keep us posted John, did you by any chance touch the last battery you fitted and did it feel hot or depleted? Let me know if it's drawing the life out the battery quickly. Do they read good voltage yet 2 days later poor voltage? Anyway John, I think you have nearly got it going properly. Personally I would regulate it in 48 hours. Keep us posted. Last edited by grundigsatelite; 14th Sep 2011 at 10:01 pm.

14th Sep 2011, 10:10 pm	#20
60 oldjohn Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 3,987	Re: Bush wall clock Radio I think it OK power wise, not even slightly warm and the same battery as yesterday. I will put a meter on it tomorow. The battery has had a little use to get an average voltage for setting time. John.