UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Oct 2020, 3:18 pm   #1
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Have been checking out my TK 120E that I very recently purchased.

A very basic mid 1960's, 2 track, single speed (3/ 3/4 ips) 3 valve mono unit with no tape counter and only a single 3 pin DIN.

Externally looks pretty good condition and generally clean inside, apart from the heads that need a good clean. Some gluing required for the rotary selector switch where the outer metal ring has come adrift from the plastic body and the plastic disk below where the lamps shines up through a red window needs gluing back down to the recorder body.

Powered up OK, reservoir, smoothing and grid coupling capacitors all checked out OK. All valve voltages look to be in right ball park. Mains ripple levels are low on the HT supply.

Mechanically everything works and tape transport operation (without tape) OK. The motor pulley to flywheel drive belt was very stretched and very badly cracked and after getting ready to play a tape, the belt broke. So need to find suitable replacement belt.

Switched to Playback there is quite a loud hum with volume and tone at high settings, will investigate that later.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	55.9 KB
ID:	217101   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	71.1 KB
ID:	217102  
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 5th Oct 2020, 4:09 pm   #2
greg_simons
Octode
 
greg_simons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 1,415
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Happy memories indeed, used to own one in the day, mostly for recording pick of the pops, good little performer.
Greg.
__________________
Picture, sound?, DOOR.
greg_simons is offline  
Old 5th Oct 2020, 11:24 pm   #3
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Fitted a replacement drive belt for the motor pulley to the flywheel, official size is 128mm x 2.7mm , nearest I could find in my spares was around 130mm x 3.2mm

As expected was not easy, as you have to thread the new belt up through the small hole on the underside, once the capstan shaft bearing plate is removed. Because this belt sits below (when unit upside down) the flywheel to Take Up reel table drive belt, you first have to remove that belt from the small pulley at the end of the capstan shaft first to be able to get the replacement belt in correct position.

I used 3 lengths of wire (electrical) looped over the belts, one on the underside to hold onto the removed flywheel to Take Up table belt, to stop it disappearing, while working on the replacement belt.

The other 2 lengths looped over the replacement belt on either side of the flywheel to help locate/pull the belt around the flywheel and stop the belt disappearing under the flywheel. During all this, the flywheel moves around quite a bit, as nothing holding it at its bottom end (with the bearing plate removed).

To get the replacement belt to go over the motor pulley had to remove securing screw and lift out of the way the PB/Record head hum cancellation/compensation coil.

Playback of tape works well now. Rewind really struggles when the Supply spool is heavily loaded with tape, I think the friction between the side edge of the Supply reel table and the rubber on the motor shaft is poor, needs more investigation.

Erase works OK.

Cleaned heads and tape guides plus cleaned corrosion off capstan shaft.
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 6th Oct 2020, 4:23 pm   #4
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Having owned several they were never that good at rewinding. You can try polishing the guides and reducing the take-up tension which acts as a dynamic brake, but it'll nevre be perfect - it's part of their charm!
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 9:11 am   #5
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
Having owned several they were never that good at rewinding. You can try polishing the guides and reducing the take-up tension which acts as a dynamic brake, but it'll nevre be perfect - it's part of their charm!
Thanks for that Glyn, good to know that the TK 120 rewind at best is not great.

The guides have been well cleaned, although not polished as such.

By finger pushing the Supply table to make better contact with the capstan shaft rubber it rewinds a lot better, so will try various things to improve the contact.

David
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 10:55 am   #6
Tractorfan
Dekatron
 
Tractorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.)
Posts: 3,177
Smile Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Hi,
My parents bought one of these back in 1967 for 29 1/2 guineas. I have now inherited it, and it still works well.
Well, it did until I played some music on it for a friend's funeral a few weeks ago when the belt snapped after 53 years!
I'm curious as to why yours has an 'E' suffix? I'm not sure, but I think mine was made in Grundig's Irish factory as there is a 'G' moulded into the case with 'IRL' in small letters inside it.
I cured the poor rewind by putting a flat section belt snugly around the LH turntable.
Cheers, Pete.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Grundig TK120 (2).jpg
Views:	89
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	217244  
__________________
"Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."
Tractorfan is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 11:35 am   #7
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Thank you Pete for the suggestion. I currently do not have any flat belts of right size but will as a test try a tight rubber band around the reel table.

The "E" only appears as "TK 120E" moulded on the rear plastic panel.

From the attached Alard Roose Grundig listing the E signifies England which I assume means manufactured in England.

http://www.taperecorders.nl/JAAR.htm

David
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 12:23 pm   #8
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tractorfan View Post
I'm not sure, but I think mine was made in Grundig's Irish factory as there is a 'G' moulded into the case with 'IRL' in small letters inside it.
Isn't that G INTL = Grundig International?
__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 1:21 pm   #9
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

An example of the G INT from mine.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	G INT.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	111.8 KB
ID:	217248  
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 2:51 pm   #10
Tractorfan
Dekatron
 
Tractorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.)
Posts: 3,177
Smile Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Hi,
Well, there's a thing! I've just checked mine, and it is indeed marked G-INT as in your photo.
Plus, it has the 'E' suffix too. It's been in the house since '67 and I've only just noticed it. Doh!
Apologies to all for the confusion.
I've had a look at my TK149 and that is marked G-INT as well.
Cheers, Pete.
__________________
"Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."
Tractorfan is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2020, 11:33 am   #11
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Fitted a temporary tight rubber band around the Supply Reel table and rewind now works very well. Even though band is tight it looks like with use the band may ride up/down.

Have ordered a bunch of miscellaneous flat drive belts, will fit one of these and see if still OK, if OK will fix by gluing to stop the drive belt riding up/down.

Been exercising Play quite a lot and now Play is starting to struggle sometimes with the Take Up reel table stopping/stuttering, looks like the Take Up spool clutch may be too weak, will check it out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20201013_112633393.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	51.2 KB
ID:	217774  
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2020, 12:04 am   #12
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Stripped down the Take Up reel table/clutch as the clutch is slipping too easily in Play.

There are 3 felt pads that can go in 9 holes, documentation states that the outer holes is the stronger clutch setting, could not see what hole position the pads were originally in.

Have been having fun and games tying the pads (after cleaning everything) in different positions, really quite difficult to get the whole assembly back in and drive belt in position without the pads falling out (then have to restart from scratch) and really difficult to fit the circlip on the bottom of the shaft. Have done a number of iterations without really improving the clutch, becoming quiet a test of patience.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20201025_214548269.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	62.9 KB
ID:	218893   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20201025_214517538.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	89.6 KB
ID:	218894  
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2020, 11:48 am   #13
Tractorfan
Dekatron
 
Tractorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.)
Posts: 3,177
Smile Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Hi,
Been there, done that. It's fun isn't it?
I can't remember how I did mine as it was a while ago. I may have removed the arm that the take up reel table assembly on then refitted it afterwards. But don't quote me on that!
Good luck!
Pete.
__________________
"Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."
Tractorfan is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 7:07 pm   #14
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Trying again to get the Take Up clutch not slipping when Playing.
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2021, 9:06 am   #15
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

After more iterations of the take up clutch adjustment have now got Play and FFD working well.

The previous temporary repair of fitting a rubber band around the outside of the plastic supply reel table has now become noisy during rewinding, due to the band position vertically slipping. Will try a couple of flat drive belts in place of the rubber band, may have to glue them on, to properly secure them.

Playback sound is OK but at high volume control setting, hum can be heard so will check that out later to see if any easy fix.

Recording still to be checked. The TK 120E only has a single DIN connector where the input signal connects to the control grid of the EF 86 via a 10k resistor (and capacitor)
so is a microphone sensitivity input. For line input will need to use a resistor attenuated cable.
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2021, 11:34 am   #16
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Have you tried simply roughening up the rim of the supply table to improve rewind?
__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2021, 12:44 pm   #17
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Thank you Ben, no I haven't, I will try that first.

David
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2021, 9:50 pm   #18
Cobaltblue
Moderator
 
Cobaltblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK.
Posts: 6,823
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Thread reopened ag OP's request.

Cheers

Mike T
__________________
Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to
Mike T BVWS member.
www.cossor.co.uk
Cobaltblue is online now  
Old 1st Sep 2021, 9:57 pm   #19
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Getting back to this one to hopefully finish it before selling it.

Went to retest Playback and had no sound at all, then remembered that recently had borrowed the ECC 83 valve to use in my Murphy TR1

David
DMcMahon is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2021, 9:59 pm   #20
DMcMahon
Dekatron
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 6,587
Default Re: Grundig TK 120E Checkout

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
Thank you Ben, no I haven't, I will try that first.

David
Never did try this, will try it now.

David
DMcMahon is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:55 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.