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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 8:33 pm   #41
WME_bill
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Advance used OSxxxx for their scopes. They marketed the first UK digital storage scope in about 1978, at the same time the US medical equipment firm Gould introduced a storage scope. So Gould made a bid and purchased Advance to get control of the idea in both countries. They continued to make Advance scopes, and marketed them as Gould-Advance OSxxxx. So the Gould OS300 is the Advance OS300 under a different marketing name. But there is one scope where the Gould is very different from the Advance OS model. I think the number is 4000. So there are both, which can cause confusion.
The Mullard 56840 is the contract equivalent to the D14-250 et al, as I said in my posting. The GH =P31 or GM=P7 denotes the screen phosphor type - medium persistence, green yellow, and the 93 is the graticule markings. The designation of CRT numbers with screen types etc also seem to cause much confusion. I think I posted a cross-reference listing of phosphor types at one time.
You could do a deal with OldTickTock and solve his CRT problem.
My sources are stray info collected over 40 years or so. I have several hundred manuals and a lot of CRT data. Much of the CRT data has been put up on Franks invaluable Electron Tube pages. Bill m0wpn

Last edited by WME_bill; 3rd Apr 2011 at 8:38 pm.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 10:45 am   #42
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Bob you have a pm
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 10:00 am   #43
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Thanks to Bob, I have a chance at getting this TEK back from the brink, he sent me a donor Gould OS300, and Bob now that's how you pack a scope for transit.

Hopefully I can post back with good news.

Chris
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 12:50 pm   #44
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Hi Chaps,

The CRT base pins are different and so are the base plugs. The original TEK is a large connection, the OS300 is a very small one. The Tek has all pins on the tube 1-14, the OS300 does not have pin 8 & 10.

I will have to swap over the connecters but also here is an issue that confuses me the Pins don't match


PIN.....TEK...OS300
1........*........*
2........*........*
3........*........*
4........*........*
5..................*
6........*........*
7........*........*
8........*.........
9........*........*
10.......*.........
11.......*.......*
12.......*.......*
13................*
14.......*.......*

so there are discrepancies on 5, 8 , 10 & 13

I'm probably being a plank, and for that I'm sorry but could someone steer me in the right direction, Stupidly I thought this would be a straight swap over.

I've removed the OS300 connector from a PCB and have wired fly leads, I will then disconnect one by one from the TEK plug and transpose over, but as I say the discrepancies have thrown me.

Thanks

Chris
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 2:19 pm   #45
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Looking back over the thread I found Bill's notes and have mapped it.

knew I was being a plank, now I shall get connecting.

Chris
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 3:48 pm   #46
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Good luck with the resurrection! Might be worth going over the PCB's to make sure that none have suffered any damage like hairline cracks. Nothing worse than finding a problem after refitting the CRT then find you've got to take it all out again!



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Old 9th Apr 2011, 4:03 pm   #47
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Forgot to mention though, Pin 2 & Pin 11 on the TEK have wires but I've no idea where to locate them on the OS300 CRT. Pins 5 & 6 on the OS300 with no idea where to connect. Coincidence, I think not but the notes on the base do not state what to do with them.

Edit:

Hi Rich, good idea, this is messing with my head a bit
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 4:47 pm   #48
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

I have the new CRT plug wired in having transposed the wires from the TEK's plug to the OS300's plug.

What's left are two wires on the TEK plug pin 2 & 11 with two wires on the newly wired in OS300 plug pin 5 & 6.

Any ideas?

Chris
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Last edited by oldticktock; 9th Apr 2011 at 4:53 pm.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 5:45 pm   #49
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Tube connections. Get out your trusty ohmmeter. Often pins are marked Internal Connection, which means it could be an alternative to another indicated pin. So use the meter to see if there is a connection to another pin. That gives you the alternative. Try looking hard inside the base area to see if there are links. We used to do that with valves to identify the connections, and it can work also with a CRT.
Are the OS300 pins 5 & 6 being used merely as anchoring points, or is there a single wire only to each. On the D1010, I suspect that pins 9 and 11 are common to a1,a3, and pins 2 & 7 are cathode. Even on a bust tube, the ohmmeter will indicate. Otherwise, trace the wiring back to the PCB and look at the circuit diagram. Let us know what you find.
My base connections for the OS300 were taken from the manual, and there may just perhaps be a misprint, so perhaps someone one with an OS300 would look at the circuit wiring around the base to confirm with my handwritten summary which you have put up again. Bill

Last edited by WME_bill; 9th Apr 2011 at 5:51 pm.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 5:54 pm   #50
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Hi Bill, I've been looking over this for a while I just need to work out where the wires on the TEK 2 & 11 go onto the new base, then I'm there. I will keep looking.

I've attached the CRT part of both scopes


It looks like the cathode of the TEK CRT is pin2 not 7, pin 11 looks like one of the plates but I have now idea which one or pair. Pins 5 & 6 are not on the gould crt schematic

On the TEK schematic which plates are Y and X

Chris
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Last edited by oldticktock; 9th Apr 2011 at 6:23 pm.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 6:28 pm   #51
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

The OS300 circuit diagram is showing internal connections to some of the grids.

The TEK circuit diagram is showing no internal connections or grids tied together internally.

Surely you cannot use the OS300 tube in the TEK scope as all the grids are connected externally ( one is earthed ) tp controlling cicuitry

Am I missing something here.

Regards
Mike

Last edited by MichaelR; 9th Apr 2011 at 6:30 pm. Reason: spelling
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 6:39 pm   #52
oldticktock
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Hi Mike,

I can't see the wood for the trees My head is well and truly fried.

I think I'm just going to buy another scope, this has become all to consuming and not an area I'm comfortable with. Wonderful help from everyone which is very much appreciated and just goes to show what a great community we belong to. I must quit whilst my sanity is in check and I don't end up with a scope grave yard which my bench and floor are beginning to look like.

Now to go TEK hunting, hope I have better luck this time.

Chris

Last edited by oldticktock; 9th Apr 2011 at 6:54 pm.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 11:13 pm   #53
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Come on Chris, you can't give up now.
This is my suggestion for pin connections;

Tek pin Function OS pin
11/12 Y plates 9/7
7/8 X plates 13/11
1/14 heater 1/14
2 cathode 2
3 g1 3
4 A2 focus 4
10 mesh? do not connect
9 astig 12
6 shield/screen? do not connect.
Everything you need is there, though please double check as some of the pin numbers are quite blurred on the attachments you posted.
Good luck,
Rob.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 11:19 pm   #54
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldticktock View Post
On the TEK schematic which plates are Y and X

Chris
The Y plates are generally closer to the cathode and as a result are more sensitive than the X plates.

Rob.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 11:48 pm   #55
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the input, I will give it a whirl tomorrow as I've been at this most of the day. I've attached a picture of how the pins are wired at present and your proposal.

The current wiring was following notes from Bill, which as Bill noticed are not correct for my setup.

still not sure about 6

Chris
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 9:32 am   #56
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Pin 6 of the Tek tube is A1, which on the OS tube is internally connected to A3.
Just leave that wire and also the wire originally to pin 10 taped up out the way.
Good luck,
Rob.
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 9:40 am   #57
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Thank you Rob,

Sort of refreshed after a night of sleep, except for the dreams of wires going here there and everywhere.

I have added labels for my own sanity, red where it came from on the TEK plug and black where it currently reside on the OS300 plug. I will start making the wiring swaps and see how it fairs.

I've nothing to loose at this stage and everything to gain. I owe you a huge beer should this prove a success.

Chris
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 9:54 am   #58
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Chris ,Rob,

I wish you luck but even if you get traces how is it going to be as the original when you have left 2 wires off.

I can see how a TEK2205 tube could be usd in an OS3000 but not how the OS3000 can be used in a Tek2205 scope because of the internal connections.

3 of the grids are internally connected whereas those 3 grid are seperately being controlled in the TEK2205.

The TEK 2215 uses less grids and that should work.

Regards
Mike
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 10:28 am   #59
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement dashed

Less connections isn't a problem usually, if there are focus and brightness and anode HT adjustments.

if the replacement tube needed much higher voltages, and MORE connections there would be a problem.

The worst that can happen if all is connected correctly is too dim, poor focus or not enough deflection.
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 10:29 am   #60
oldticktock
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Default Re: TEK scope excitement- 2205 tube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WME_bill View Post
Sadly, Einovan' suggestion of tube from a 2215 is no use. It is a pda tube.
Bill

The 2215 apparently would not work either, see above from post #37

As I mentioned before I'm very confused by all of this too, so not really wanting to spend another day with my head stuck up this scope rear or fry a perfectly good CRT, or destroy what remains of the TEK which could be used for spares, I shall retire from the proceedings whilst the day is young.

Although i'm very grateful for all the advice, it is starting to confuse oldticktock as I seem to be going back and forth.

Cheers chaps, I really do appreciate the input but my skills in test equipment repair are non existent and I really don't want to start frustrating you all any further.

Chris

Last edited by oldticktock; 10th Apr 2011 at 10:35 am.
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