UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Computers

Notices

Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 13th Apr 2021, 6:43 pm   #1601
ScottishColin
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 629
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Ah - apologies. I took a known working plunger and used that to test every single key on the PCB. Not all the plungers work however.

Here's an incomplete list of PETs in films

http://www.starringthecomputer.com/computer.html?c=39

http://www.starringthecomputer.com/computer.html?c=178

https://www.commodore.ca/commodore-g...-in-tv-movies/

The IBM PC was released in 1981, so there was a bit of cross-over by 1984. I can remember installing the 50th IBM PC at (what was) Norwich Union - that was an event at that time.

Colin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
From the same post:

Quote:
All the keys are now working
Quote:
I have ordered Keypad Fix
??

I take it some of the keys are a bit 'dead', but do work if you press them harder?

Anyway, a good bit of troubleshoooting all round there, well done.

That postcode is an excellent signpost to the history of the machine, maybe someone who remembers having used it will eventually surface?

I happened to see Wonder Woman 2 (Wonder Woman 1984) the other night and there was a brief glimpse of a PET, didn't get which model, on an office desk - would they still have been in mainstream office use by then? I suppose the PC was still a little way into the future.
ScottishColin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:08 pm   #1602
ScottishColin
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 629
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

I changed the rubber belt in one of my datasettes and plugged it into the back. Bearing in mind the cassette that I picked has not been used for 40 years, it loaded and worked first time. After everything that has happened with this PET, I guess we were owed a break.

Colin.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Downloads.zip (1.49 MB, 12 views)
ScottishColin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:10 pm   #1603
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 6,411
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

I didn't realise the PC was so early, I wasn't really aware of them until the late eighties / early nineties.

Do I not remember seeing a PET as a constant fixture in amongst the background clutter in Leonard & Sheldon's apartment? (The Big Bang Theory).

I had a rummage around at work today and found some rubber dome contacts (image attached). The outer rim is 15mm outside diameter and the 'unpressed' height of the dome is about 5.5mm.

I remember I harvested these from a PC keyboard that was being scrapped for some reason. I think I kept them as potential spares for one of my Atari ST computers but I don't even know if they are the same size as the Atari ones.

Anyway, if the PET ones can be removed from the plungers and these ones are the same size, you are welcome to a few - they would probably be a bit more hard wearing than any paint-on coating you can find.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	KeyContacts.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	48.6 KB
ID:	231737  
SiriusHardware is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:14 pm   #1604
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 6,411
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quote:
I guess we were owed a break
Too right. Great that both the datasette and the tape 'just worked'. A game like that would have kept me endlessly entertained back in the day (I loved 'Flight Simulator' on the ZX81).
SiriusHardware is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:40 pm   #1605
Slothie
Heptode
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 810
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I didn't realise the PC was so early, I wasn't really aware of them until the late eighties / early nineties..
I got my PET in 1978/9..
Slothie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:43 pm   #1606
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 6,411
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

That's about the period I would have expected for the PET but I thought the PC (...not the PET) was quite a bit later. (Originally, this was me musing over whether the use of PETs in WW: 1984 was a little bit off target).
SiriusHardware is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:48 pm   #1607
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 605
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I didn't realise the PC was so early, I wasn't really aware of them until the late eighties / early nineties.
That would have presumably been the PS/2 (otherwise known as PS half). IBM used to dominate the computer market with their "fear and confusion" strategy. It never occurred to them that people might buy computers without IBM's permission. When sales of mainframes dropped things like the PET and the TRS80 were well established. That was late 70s. I remember walking past the Commodore shop in Euston road on the way to work where they had a PET on display in the window showing a Starship Enterprise animation. IBM rushed to get the original PC onto the market as quickly as possible when they realised what was happening.

Was the Pet successful in France? It's one of those international marketing pitfalls. It's French for "fart"
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 7:54 pm   #1608
Slothie
Heptode
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 810
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
That's about the period I would have expected for the PET but I thought the PC (...not the PET) was quite a bit later. (Originally, this was me musing over whether the use of PETs in WW: 1984 was a little bit off target).
Oh my bad. Missed the PC reference. I saw my first XT about 1985 and that was a clone so I guess they were originally made a bit earlier. But it was late 80s/Early 90s before they started sprouting like mushrooms in offices. I fondly recall the old Apricot computers with the then revolutionary 3.5" floppies!
Slothie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:19 pm   #1609
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 6,411
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Getting back to Colin's triumph over PET adversity, I wonder what else he has on those old cassettes? He's probably just in the process of finding out.

I noticed his original post about this machine from 2012. If we (dubiously) count that opening salvo nearly nine years ago, then this would be one of the most epic repair sagas ever featured on the forum.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=83791
SiriusHardware is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:46 pm   #1610
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,719
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

The original IBM PC was launched as long ago as 1981, but IBM-compatible PCs did not really "take off" in the UK until the mid to late late 1980s, with the launch of the Amstrad PC1512 and 1640. Until then, the few firms that had already adopted 8-bit computers were still squeezing the last drops of life from them; and RM and Acorn had the education market pretty much to themselves.
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:47 pm   #1611
ScottishColin
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 629
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Here's something that takes me back a long way....

Now to build a speaker.

Colin.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Downloads_1.zip (875.1 KB, 12 views)
ScottishColin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:50 pm   #1612
ScottishColin
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 629
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

And here's some photos of the original tapes I have. I know they're 42 years old because I either got them with the PET or I bought them at the time when I won it.

I've plenty more tapes which contain games/code I typed in prom listings in Personal Computer World too.

Colin.
Attached Files
File Type: zip PET Originals.zip (572.2 KB, 15 views)
ScottishColin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:54 pm   #1613
ScottishColin
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 629
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

PS/2s were released in 87 - I worked at Norwich Union and we had thousands of them in the end. I remember them fondly - they were expensive but very very reliable and great to work on. Everything plugged in and out easily.

We were a big OS/2 shop as well - that was my career for a while.

Colin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepilot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I didn't realise the PC was so early, I wasn't really aware of them until the late eighties / early nineties.
That would have presumably been the PS/2 (otherwise known as PS half). IBM used to dominate the computer market with their "fear and confusion" strategy. It never occurred to them that people might buy computers without IBM's permission. When sales of mainframes dropped things like the PET and the TRS80 were well established. That was late 70s. I remember walking past the Commodore shop in Euston road on the way to work where they had a PET on display in the window showing a Starship Enterprise animation. IBM rushed to get the original PC onto the market as quickly as possible when they realised what was happening.

Was the Pet successful in France? It's one of those international marketing pitfalls. It's French for "fart"
ScottishColin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 8:59 pm   #1614
Slothie
Heptode
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 810
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishColin View Post
Here's something that takes me back a long way....

Now to build a speaker.

Colin.
Well that's a huge nostalgia rush for me! I spent hours playing that after school on the school PETs (my PET had v1 ROMs and wouldn't run it). I did use the speaker set up to make "music" on my PET though.
Slothie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 9:08 pm   #1615
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 6,411
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quite pricey for the time, some of those. I remember thinking it was a black day when, after years of Spectrum titles costing about 5, Ultimate-Play The Game suddenly decided they could get away with charging 9.99. And that was several years later.

I notice you said you'd paid 25 for the PET originally, although you had to drive quite a long way to pick it up. I wonder if you've dared to add up the real cost of the repair? I suppose it's not too bad if you look on it as a kind of open-university course in computer repair with a working computer thrown in at the end.

Plus you now own a few useful tools, such as your scope, which is such a universally handy thing to have that it doesn't really count as part of the cost of the PET project.
SiriusHardware is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 9:14 pm   #1616
Timbucus
Heptode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 903
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

I can vouch for the Scope thing - he persuaded me to buy a digital storage one for a job - use it all the time now
Timbucus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 9:18 pm   #1617
ScottishColin
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 629
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

I've been tracking it.

Overall I've spent 239.91.

Out of that, 92.47 was the scope/meters/Arduino so I've still got all of that.

Also, I tended to overegg my Cricklewood orders in case I cocked anything up, so i have several new ICs and sockets left over, along with a replacement 6502 (15) that I bought just in case.

I will have to buy some paint yet to restore the case - if anyone happens to know a good match for Commodore PET cases, that would be good.

Before we finally call this thread a day, I will put up a summary of the whole event from my point of view, along with what was replaced and what was purchased.

Colin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
Quite pricey for the time, some of those. I remember thinking it was a black day when, after years of Spectrum titles costing about 5, Ultimate-Play The Game suddenly decided they could get away with charging 9.99. And that was several years later.

I notice you said you'd paid 25 for the PET originally, although you had to drive quite a long way to pick it up. I wonder if you've dared to add up the real cost of the repair? I suppose it's not too bad if you look on it as a kind of open-university course in computer repair with a working computer thrown in at the end.

Plus you now own a few useful tools, such as your scope, which is such a universally handy thing to have that it doesn't really count as part of the cost of the PET project.
ScottishColin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 9:26 pm   #1618
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 6,411
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Quote:
Arduino (etc) so I've still got all of that...
In its own way the Arduino is as useful and versatile as the scope, especially because it is a 5V device and therefore particularly suited to interfacing to / testing of 5V systems and components. You will find many more applications for that, I am sure.

Regarding restoration of the casings, I think AJ (ajgriff) might be the man to speak to about that.
SiriusHardware is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Apr 2021, 10:49 pm   #1619
ortek_service
Heptode
 
ortek_service's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
Posts: 572
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

Just catching-up on the latest, it was a bit confusing as had started off about repairing keys, when it had seemed they had all done something (even if often giving the wrong thing) originally. Then I saw:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishColin View Post
Thanks all - we now have a working keyboard.

About ten of the keys don't function but I think that's down to the individual key not making a circuit when it is pushed - off to investigate that now.

I certainly get a lot of the keys I didn't get before.
Colin.
So I presume you must have received the new 74LS145 today, and swapping this did actually fix the odd fault you had after all?
- It had seemed it couldn't really be anything else, but good to have this confirmed and hadn't had to pay for anything unnecessary

It's probably not been a bad investment money wise (If you exclude your labour costs like they also seemed to on earlier Wheeler Dealers!), especially from noticing some recent asking prices for PET's (especially in the USA) - even higher than >15 years ago.
Although still much cheaper than the various IBM's originally cost in the 80's, until Compaq etc. started off all the compatibles after IBM lost the battle over alternative BIOS's, the hardware architecture was quite open, Plus DOS was sold separately by Microsoft.
I do recall using IBM's OS/2 on our lab's local server for a while but it seemed MS Windows Server replaced that for many after Windows had caught on.

I presume you have tried cleaning again the conductive-rubber plungers, but they still don't work reliably enough.
And had wondered if the conductive rubber can be extracted from the plastic and turned upside-down if it is conductive throughout and not just one face, but is seems the outer non-conductive rubber is also the 'spring' on these. I had seen a PET keyboard completely stripped-down, to clean everything, where they said that was the only way to ensure it was reliable: https://www.commodorecomputerclub.co...4032-keyboard/

Rather than suggested fixes, here: https://www.vintagecomputer.net/brow...ead.cfm?id=703 (or the 'silver paint' mixture in that video, which I think was from a Chemtronics? repair kit design for keypads?)
I suppose you could always fit the worst plungers on the less used keys - like the numeric keypad - for now.
So be able to type the Hello World etc. programs easier...

Last edited by ortek_service; 13th Apr 2021 at 10:59 pm.
ortek_service is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Apr 2021, 5:30 am   #1620
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,719
Default Re: Non-working Commodore PET 3016

The numeric pad provides the only way to type numbers on a PET.
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.