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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 9th Feb 2018, 7:07 pm   #1
djjones
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Default Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Hi all,
I have just been given a Wyndsor Vanguard recorder, I'm not an enthusiast, but would like to be able to listen to some tapes recorded on an Elizabethan deck back in the 60's, and would like to ask a few questions :
1) It appears complete, except for a power lead, does anyone know if the connector is available anywhere to make one up, if not, a photo of one with measurements would be helpful.
2) Once made, referring to attached photo is pos/neg on left or right ?
3) Does anyone have a copy of the user manual ?
4) If it isn't possible to obtain the plug, any other suggestions - would it be too dangerous as a friend has suggested to solder wires to the pins and run them to a different connector (waits for shudders of disapproval)

Thanks for any help/life saving suggestions,

Dave
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 10:09 pm   #2
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Looks like a small Bulgin to my untrained eye.
Try comparing dimensions on this datasheet:-
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/308355.pdf
Part available from Farnell, Rapid etc.
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 10:40 pm   #3
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Smile Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Hi,
If it were mine, and I couldn't obtain a suitable line socket, I would disconnect the three wires from the connector and route them to a tag strip or miniature barrier terminal strip. fix it inside the machine and then connect a three core cable.
If you find a connector, it will be marked L, E, N. Although it may be very small.
Cheers, Pete.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 12:27 am   #4
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

It's a Bulgin small three pin socket. Random eBay listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bulgin-3-...sAAOSwFnFV8qTq
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 2:37 am   #5
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

That's the type that was probably originally supplied with the unit, which has since been de-rated to 50V if accessible, superseded by the Bulgin PX0430/SE for mains applications (has strain relief and needs a tool to open rather than just unscrewing by hand.) and not much dearer, e.g.:
http://cpc.farnell.com/bulgin/px0430...5116?st=bulgin
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 11:18 am   #6
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Don't want to shove too much info at you at the moment but yes, your option 4 would be too dangerous.

A quick search using Google shows this machine is based on the Collaro/Magnavox 363 deck. It may have a transistor-based set of electronics or could be a late-in-the-day valve model. It would be interesting to know.

Some of the rubber in the 363 deck may have perished and some electronic parts may be electrically leaky. All can be fixed with a little patience. We always welcome new members and like to talk them through these things.
Graham
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 5:45 pm   #7
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Re post no 4, I was after a similar plug for a Grundig TK14,the small Bulgin plug was standard fitting at least to UK models. I regret to say I didnt update my parts wanted post(sorry) but as I have now ordered one of these I will see if it fits and then act accordingly.Les.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 3:12 am   #8
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

If it is the very small type have a look for a broken Weller TCP soldering iron as they have one on them.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 11:28 am   #9
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Re #6, it's valve based. Lots more info here:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 9:24 pm   #10
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Thanks all the help identifying the plug, I have ordered one off ebay.
Next question is should I just turn it on and see if I get any funny smells ?

I have attached a pic showing the valves for anyone interested, also, the one obvious thing to look at is (I think it's called the idler wheel ??) on which the rubber has deteriorated, but do you think cleaning the surface muck off will help. Is there anywhere that would have a suitable replacement ?
Have attached a pic of that as well.
I have a multi-meter, is there anything (handholding alert) I can measure to test for possibly faulty components ?
Also pic of deck attached.
Dave
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 10:47 am   #11
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

You may well be lucky there- the most likely problem components (some of the capacitors) look like they're the well respected Mullard (Philips) "mustards" (so called because of their colour). They get that respect because they have proven to be extremely reliable compared to the older wax and paper type often found in vintage electronics.

That rusty(?) wheel looks like a drive wheel with rubber tyred idlers on either side. If so it should respond to a cleanup though stopping new rust could be a problem if any plating has gone. Others here will probably actually know the deck- I'm just making general comments........
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:29 am   #12
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Connector arrived today courtesy of ebay, made up lead, plugged in and turned on.
No funny smells, but only sign of life when turned on is that the recording level meter lights up.
Any diagnostics I can perform from here ?
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:19 pm   #13
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Hi Dave,

Does the motor run? The motor is powered from the mains and should run whether the electronics are working or not.

There is what appears to be a metal or selenium rectifier, they are not the most reliable of rectifiers.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 2:05 pm   #14
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Note that the 363 motor only runs if you press the play or wind rockers. When playing this gives the deck its characteristic burble as the tape gets up to speed. Not one of Collaro's greatest ideas!

The link I posted above containing the reviews seems corrupted, try this

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=103812
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 6:15 pm   #15
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

No life from the motor when any of Play/Rwd/FF pressed. Valves lit and warmed up.
Can I just check I've wired the mains cable correctly, brown is connected to black on attached photo, so assumed brown is -ve, and orange to +ve
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 7:31 pm   #16
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

You can't really talk about -ve and +ve where AC is concerned. The closest to a -ve concept would be the neutral connection. The plug you bought should have a tiny N moulded into the plastic. The closest to what you mean for +ve is the Live (or Line) connection and the plug should have an L moulded in. The 3rd connection is Earth, marked E. It is the connection opposite the orientation indent for aligning the plug/socket. The colour of the wiring inside the machine could be anything.

In a practical scenario, providing the Earth is where it should be (or left disconnected), the other 2 (being AC) could be either way round for the machine to work. (Not so with so-called AC/DC equipment, which this isn't).

I'd say valves warming up is a good sign you have power connected in a way that should make it work.
Graham
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 8:35 pm   #17
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

In my experience the deterioration of the rubber components in this deck makes them unusable. In case you are really lucky I would suggest checking that the mechanics work before attempting any electronic repairs.

As far as I know there is no source of replacement idlers (I would like to be proved wrong here!). It may be possible to have new rubber added onto the core but frankly, if it was me, I would rather spend the money on a better machine.

Very best of luck, be great to see one of these decks working again.

Peter
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 11:45 pm   #18
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Definitely no L/N on plug, I looked with a magnifying glass, so I checked the inside to see what colours I was connecting onto,but from what you say, all I have to do is get the earth right.

Any suggestions for next step ?

Perhaps I should explain my objective, I got the machine for nothing, and all I want is for it to work long enough to play about 5 Scotch tapes recorded about 50 years ago on an Elizabethan machine, probably recorded by microphone of me on a quiz on Radio Luxembourg, so they are going to be about as far away as you can get from Hi Fidelity, if they play at all.

I would like to get this working though, maybe I'll get the bug !

Other alternative is to get a working cheap Elizabethan or similar ??
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 11:56 pm   #19
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

I get my idlers rebuilt at terry's rubber rollers I have a few in stock on an exchange basis and they are expensive
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 9:18 pm   #20
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Default Re: Power plug for Wyndsor Vanguard

Good news - I moved all the rollers/wheels around for a minute or two, and it now moves under it's own steam, though the rubber on the drive (idler ??) wheel on top of the motor is disintegrating by the second.
The left spool is still quite stiff, so it seems they need to come off and get lubricated, any suggestions as to what oil to use ?
Dave
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