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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 5th Nov 2018, 12:08 am   #21
Techman
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

Thanks for the info. Ben, interesting stuff. I forgot to mention that I was going to have a closer look at the cartridge, but on removing the single fixing screw, there was something still holding it firmly in place, so further investigation needed. I'm also going to have a closer look at the cartridge that I removed from that other Sony deck. The only reason that I replaced it with something else was that the stylus was an unknown as regards condition - the intention always was to get a new stylus for it and see how it performed. I'll find it and post a picture for identification.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 12:23 am   #22
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

Most the Sony PS-T series turntables (late 70s-early 80s) I have owned had the XL-15 cart (very nice sound too). This is not compatible with the Audio technica cart. See if the pic jogs any memories!
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 12:24 am   #23
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

The first picture is not the best unfortunately. The first two are of the one in the stack system and the second two are of the one from a Sony PS-T22 deck.

Edit: Our posts crossed - you were correct on that second cartridge.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 12:34 am   #24
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

As I suspected! ;-)
The XL15 is very nice, excellent frequency response. To me it looks like Sony's version of a Shure M75. Styli (REF: ND15) available online for under 20 notes. But do check the one that you have. If the cantilever is not bent and it has a tip, then play a 'sacrificial' LP (from a charity shop, for example) and listen for distortion, sibilance etc. It may well be fine.

The other one on the midi system will indeed take an ATN91 stylus, available for under a tenner online. But the drive belt for the deck may need replacement. Might be worth thinking about how much time and cash you want to invest in what is a rather unremarkable system...
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 1:06 am   #25
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

I'm not intending to spend anything on the stack system. I may 're-home' it somewhere, or just salvage the cartridge and some other parts and scrap the rest of it, or even use it as a random radio somewhere. I actually suspect that it doesn't have a drive belt and is a servo driven direct drive like the separate Sony deck mentioned, although I haven't confirmed that for definite yet.

I'm definitely now going to look again at the XL15. The PS-T22 is quite a good deck in my opinion, just a shame about the usual brittle plastic problem below deck that's had to be dealt with a while back. I've got the rest of the system, less the speakers, that was with it when I was given it some years ago. It's up in the loft and I seem to remember that the tape deck is in bits in a box needing a new main belt that I never got round to replacing - I seem to remember that there was something unusual about it and I couldn't easily match it to a replacement at the time.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 10:42 am   #26
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

To state the obvious, you don't have to use the matched (fairly basic) deck with the midi system, as any deck with a MM cartridge can be connected.

That said, you may find there's more interest in the midi system and deck than you might expect given the vinyl craze. It may be a bit low end in hifi terms but is much better than most of the stuff being built now. It's certainly worth spending a couple of quid on a CPC belt to get it working if necessary.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 11:09 am   #27
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

One thing I'd say is that if you decide to sell it, you'd probably get more if you get the cassette decks going as well. In my experience, partially-working kit doesn't appeal to as many people. A cheap belt kit of mixed sizes off ebay would probably be easiest.

Is the record deck built in to the system or is it a separate unit?
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 11:14 am   #28
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

With mine, the record deck is separate but powered by a low voltage supply from the main unit.

The last time I checked, both cassette decks on mine were still working, but I didn't pay much attention to them. This unit is a bit older though.

Don't forget there's a bit of an emerging cassette craze now too!
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 8:13 pm   #29
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

The record deck on this one is part of the complete unit. However, it's fixed to the main unit by four screws. The power (12 volts DC) and the signal connections from the tone arm are connected via a single plug and socket. I removed the deck and can now confirm that it is actually belt drive and the belt is still in place, although a little slack as regards to tension. The platter does actually now revolve at the correct speeds although has a judder on each revolution, presumed for the moment to be caused by slippage of the belt. I've not worked on a unit exactly like this before, so haven't at this stage worked out what's holding the platter in place. Picture of the underside of the deck shown below.

The second picture is looking straight down from the top into the innards. That's an impressive looking mains transformer for a unit like this, I have to say!

The stylus cantilever is completely missing as can be seen in the last picture. The cartridge is stuck fast to the head of the tone arm, even with the fixing screw removed. I'm not bothered about this at this stage as I've decided not to scrap the unit for parts now. Something has been going on regarding the record deck, as I found that the lift and lower platform for the tone arm must have been removed at some time and had been replaced completely the wrong way round. At the rear of the tone arm is a transit screw that was wound all the way up, holding that corner of the deck rigidly in place. There's another transit screw that can be seen from beneath the deck, but the adjustment for this one is under the platter, this would indicate that perhaps it just pulls off for easy access to it, but it doesn't seem to want to 'give', and with it being all plastic, risk of breakage is a real possibility if too much force is exerted - perhaps it's that nut that can be seen underneath?
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 7:24 pm   #30
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Default Re: F.R.C. Ltd. Model 203SL speakers & Sony stack system

I guess that the deathly silence means that no one knows how the platter comes off. However, it turns out that it IS that nut that releases the spindle bearing.

To gain access, the large brass looking bolt is removed. There's two standard flip round spring clips as used on traditional deck transit screws. One flips round to allow the removal, the other doesn't, but the hole is open sided to allow removal sideways once the first one is out of its hole. The nut on the bottom of the bearing spindle is removed complete with sprung washer. The spindle is a very tight interference fit in the plastic and has to be drifted out, taking great care not to damage the threads. The turntable platter can then be removed, with the belt being released from the motor spindle and speed change levers. It's very important to note the two washers on the bottom of the bearing spindle, one is a plain type washer and one is a thrust type washer. They both look to be of the same size at first glance, but the thrust washer has a slightly larger centre hole than the plain washer. This is where all the trouble had been caused. I mentioned that there had been a shudder or judder on every revolution of the platter. Finger marks under the platter that weren't mine told me that someone had been there before. The thrust washer has to fit over a very shallow step on the bottom of the bearing, if it's not, then after assembly it will be trapped and squashed, thus causing the shudder. It's a very shallow shelf that it fits onto and can easily fall off during reassembly. A blob of grease could possibly be used to stick it in place, but having used a few drops of clock oil to lubricate the bearing, I wanted to avoid adding grease, as this isn't a ball race type bearing, so care was needed with the mechanism held sideways and slightly backwards for reassembly. The belt after being fitted round the motor pulley and the correct side of the speed change levers, can be looped over the other end of the unit and then wound round over the platter drive rim when fully down in place.

I had to add several drops of clock oil via the end of a small screwdriver blade to the top motor bearing before assembly, and this made a considerable difference to it's previously slightly noisy running - I find these type of motors always need a drop of oil to the top bearing, whether in a record deck or cassette deck. I suspect that the belt could have been replaced in the very distant past and the thrust washer was displaced, so the deck never worked properly since that time. The belt isn't perfect and was rather shiny on the inside, with a slight crease where it had sat against the motor spindle in one position for many years and it's a little on the slack side, but could well have been a slightly over sized belt when fitted. However, it works fine and doesn't slip or come off, and the auto lift off and return work without stopping - I turned it inside out to give it a fighting chance before refitting and left it revolving for an hour or two on both speeds after reassembly.

The above dismantling and reassembly description may be of help to anyone else who has to service one of these units.

Last edited by Techman; 27th Nov 2018 at 7:29 pm.
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