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Old 2nd May 2023, 10:07 am   #21
ScottBouch
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

I have just found on the South African Hellermann Tyton website, a PDF page of a catalogue showing Helsyn sleeves marked to order:

https://mail.hellermanntyton.co.za/d...ers-helsyn.pdf

While this doesn't show me how to do it myself, it's a clue that Hellermann can still offer it as a service.

Interesting how difficult it's been to find this information anywhere else. Even after writing to Hellermann UK, I heard nothing back. I may try Hellermann South Africa next.
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Old 4th May 2023, 7:16 pm   #22
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

The other company they used at work for the printed rubber sleeves was Siegrist Orel, they are now part of Sumitomo Electric Industries, Ltd of Japan.
https://www.sumi-electric.eu/seid/

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Old 15th May 2023, 1:38 am   #23
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

The old Marconi TV Txs at the site I worked at for years, used black, pink, & white insulated wire, with rubber sleeves which were just for identification, not insulation.
Unfortunately, the I.D. was in some esoteric code that was only understandable by those wiring the things up in the factory.

When I first encountered the things, they were just 10 years old, but in many cases, the pink & white wire had become hot enough that it was indistinguishable from the black ones, without opening the cabled-up form back a few inches.

This seemed be to mainly to do with the use of valves on Phenolic PCBs without making enough allowance for heat dissipation.
Even if the ID sleeves had been decipherable by the uniniated, they shrivelled up from the heat.

We often had to add a piece of new wire, joined to the first part of the old one which was undamaged.
The joint was then insulated with "Helsyn sleeves".

Interestingly, the first time I encountered these sleeves at a previous employer, they were called "Maisha sleeves".
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Old 15th May 2023, 8:55 am   #24
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

I wonder if Maisha was the name of another manufacturer? These may have been natural rubber as opposed to synthetic rubber?

Earlier sleeves made by Hellermann were natural rubber and just called Hellermann Sleeves, the later Helsyn were made from a Neoprene (chloroprene) rubber, these seem to first appear around 1944. Then high temperature Helsyn+ and Helvin (PVC) came out later.

Cheers, Scott
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Old 16th May 2023, 10:11 pm   #25
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

I missed this thread when first started. Although I still have my draughting pens, I use disposable 0.2mm draughting pens for marking Helsyn sleeves. I just write freehand after expanding the sleeve to its approx fitted diameter, but before fitting to the cable. Although my handwriting is quite untidy, my printing on drawings was always very neat and I can still manage it on these sleeves. The marking seems quite resilient. I use pink sleeves but only because I have a big bagfull and the black ink shows up well.
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Old 18th May 2023, 12:42 pm   #26
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Hi,

I've always worked in the aircraft industry, starting as an apprentice in the mid 1980s. One job of the electrical apprentices used to be printing these very sleeves.

Blank sleeves were supplied, in various colours, and then printed on what we called a 'hot stamp' machine. This had a series of metal wheels with a full character set each, which could be rotated to make up the ident required - I think up to 10 or maybe 12 characters. The stamping wheels were heated to a fairly high temperature - hot enough to burn if you brushed past them.

The ident sleeve would be loaded onto a metal rod, of slightly smaller diameter, and placed in a groove underneath the metal stamping wheels. A foot switch then started a sequence which brought the wheels down onto the sleeve, through an inked ribbon, similar to a typewriter ribbon. The wheels pressed into the sleeve for maybe 5 seconds before release.

This lead to a very durable mark being left on the sleeve, which would even stand vigorous rubbing with various typical aircraft oils and fluids.

The sleeves were then applied to aircraft wiring harnesses with the previously mentioned stretching pliers and Hellerine oil.
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Old 19th May 2023, 6:29 pm   #27
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Hi Roadster, any advice on which specific pens you use? I intend on marking pink sleeves too, so if you know of a non-smudging ink already, that will greatly help if I hand-write them!

And Mustycat, THANK YOU!

I think you have just answered the question!!! A quick search online returned this result: https://www.identimark.co.uk/hotmark...rking-machines - are these modern equivalents? I note they dont' show Neoprene sleeves, but a few other material including PVC, heat shrink, etc..

A quick look on ebay returned this, wheels and ribbon, but hand-press: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385558430242
And https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194876448485
- Not for me at that price, but good to know what to look out for.

Thank you again for pointing me in this direction!

I wonder what is is about applying the print with heat that makes it more resistant to coming off?
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Last edited by ScottBouch; 19th May 2023 at 6:54 pm.
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Old 19th May 2023, 6:41 pm   #28
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

(Notes: Also called "foil stamping machines" referring to the ribbon.)
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Old 19th May 2023, 10:23 pm   #29
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

I'm sure I have seen Chinese made mini hot foil stamping machines on eBay for a few hundred (<= 300) pounds. I think it was intended for date coding plastic food bags but I'm sure it could be adapted.

What makes the print more durable is (a the ink is fused into the media onto which it is printed and b) it makes the print slightly embossed thus any wiping/ abrasion of the surface doesn't affect the print as much.
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Old 20th May 2023, 4:39 pm   #30
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Well, seems either my recall is poor or they have gone down considerably in price:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364147897...mis&media=MORE

(£70)

You would of course need to find metal alphabetical blocks to replace the numbers but this could be a cheap way to experiment with hot foil stamping rubber sleeves
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Old 20th May 2023, 4:44 pm   #31
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Or this... Just heat the block up with a blowtorch...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394494630...mis&media=MORE


But here are the ones compatible with the £70 machine

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133791358...mis&media=COPY
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Old 21st May 2023, 1:25 am   #32
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Have a dig round this site https://www.brady.co.uk/label-printers/m210, the prices go from what I would call reasonable to out of this world depending on what you want to do.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 7:51 am   #33
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

If you do want to go the modern thermal label printer route then any Brother machine that supports 24mm TZ/TZe labels will work, some machines will autocut but that can be disabled and I believe that's what Brother reccommend.
I use a PT-D600VP for labelling purposes and it has been faultless. Allows you to either create labels on the machine or by using the P-Touch editor PC/Mac software. They do have cheaper machines that have no UI and only work from the editor software, some not even requiring software/hardware installation to work in basic mode.
There's also plenty of compatible labels and ribbon available (though not in heatshrink form I understand) that seem to be of good enough quality, and personally the only genuine label tape I've used is the one that was supplied!
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Old 23rd May 2023, 11:51 am   #34
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottBouch View Post

And Mustycat, THANK YOU!

I think you have just answered the question!!! A quick search online returned this result: https://www.identimark.co.uk/hotmark...rking-machines - are these modern equivalents? I note they dont' show Neoprene sleeves, but a few other material including PVC, heat shrink, etc..

Glad it helped point you in the right direction. The Identimark machine does look like it does a very similar job, although ours were on a much larger scale, but obviously we used to print 100s of sleeves per day.

I agree with the later comment that the mark was more durable because it was kind of 'embossed' a little into the rubber sleeve, giving it more protection from rubbing I suppose. We used to send samples off to our in-house lab to ensure the depth of mark penetration did not exceed a maximum amount. I know they used to perform a high voltage breakdown as well, to make sure the stamped mark did not degrade the insulation too much, even though these sleeves are used more for identification and to bundle wires into harnesses, rather than as primary insulation.
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Old 8th Aug 2023, 7:55 pm   #35
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Default Re: Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

Just found this on CASA.NZ - a 1969 Hellermann catalogue showing details of the expansion tools!

https://www.casa.co.nz/connectors/Ac...te_8p_400c.pdf

Brilliant stuff
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